A wrong comparison. Slaves did not break laws to be slaves. Illegal immigrants broke the law. That is why they are called illegal immigrants. America is a country of laws and not a world refugee camp. We have embassies and consulates everywhere and open, transparent, fair processes for everyone to go and apply for legal immigration. Everyone in the world is welcome. There is no need to walk at night to the Southern border and cross borders illegally. That is a crime. Supporting criminals is unpatriotic and anti-national. All illegal immigrants must be prosecuted and deported back at the expense of the country of origin.

@St-Sinner When I applied for a residence permit in Germany I had to do paperwork, get a doctor's OK and file a police report and promise not to take a job away from a German. Also, I had to claim my place of origin and open a closed bank account and deposit an amount equal to what it would colst to send me back.
When my late partner came here with student visas, in 77 the family got trapped because of the revolution in Iran and she filed for citizenship for the family (4). Because of the hostages and feelings for the Iranians she had a lot of difficulty but they did finally get their citizenship's. When she hears of people getting amnesty she would get upset and say why have rules when we let people break them. It makes a mockery of us being a nation of laws. I sometimes heard that on the media but very seldom. Our immigration policy is really screwed up.

@JackPedigo
I admire how America has welcomed immigrants from world over. But some activists have taken it too far to mean it is an open, borderless land and hold no respect for other people lining up legally, filling out forms, obeying the law, showing respect for our policies.

A huge special industry is built of activists, lawyers, vendors, lobbyists, smugglers, traffickers at and around the Southern border. Trump stopping illegal immigration means they losing their living and exploitation of immigrants.

If they really cared for human rights and the welfare of children who should have a refuge in America, why not help over 700 million children starving of simple food and dying of eradicated diseases all around the world. Why not airlift and bring them here? And what about the homeless and the starving children right here inside the nation? Wouldn't that be a real compassion and true help? But no, their focus is on immigrants who are at the Southern borders illegally because it helps them make a living. They would never open their homes for any immigrants nor will they stand up for any discrimination against immigrants at work inside America because their charity is limited to what serves their interests. They will fucking keep their heads down and work in corporate America to save their asses.

I am for helping everybody in the world but I do not support these phony human rights activists. Illegal immigration must be stopped and legal merit based immigration should be encouraged.

@St-Sinner Attempting to get refugee status is not breaking the law either. So the comparison is apt, you simply have a bias which allows you to believe that a human being can be illegal. A concept that makes no sense whatsoever.

@redbai
The U.S. Administration has revised the bad rules and stated that the U.S. missions are open and ready to help in each country of their origin. Do not come to the order. Why is it not easy to understand?

You want the chaos and anarchy to continue? You do not want this handled better? You think this crowding at the Southern border should continue? The overwhelming of the U.S. system should continue? If yes, how does that make you a good citizen that does not stand up for the rule of law but instead support the chaos, and support people who do not want to follow an orderly process?

What you are doing is asking other law abiding and honest citizens' resources be committed to your cause. That is not my cause, it is not the policy of the United States and it should not be. You can open your own doors and start charity on your own.

@St-Sinner Whereas I fully agree with your first paragraph (would add churches as they also sponsor immigrants to bolster their numbers) I see the rest as the makings of a disaster. We need to reduce our impact/population not increase it. Right now the fires in California are seriously impacting thousands of people. Last year it was estimated 70K were impacted because of the wildfires. Add to that this increasing number of people that have been hit with floods, tornadoes/hurricanes, power outages and other climate events. It's like the instruction when flying to put masks on oneself first before helping others. If you go so will the others. We need to stop being a social worker for others and take care of those in this country first. One reason tRump and his ilk are supported is because too many people in this country are feeling like 2nd class citizens and that their needs are being ignored.

@JackPedigo
Correct. Stopping illegal immigration is a rallying cry on both sides. Any candidate that talks about supporting these issues will rally voters on both sides

1. Stop illegal immigration, encourage merit-based legal immigration
2. I am against wars of choice like the Iraq war
3. Put term limits to Congress members
4. Discontinue luxury benefits such as subsidized cafeteria at the capitol
5. Discontinue white glove, premium healthcare plan to Congress members that regular Americans cannot get
6. Publish each Congress member's attendance, votes by issue record for each session
7. Bring in campaign finance reforms - make publishing all campaign monies from lobbying organizations
8. Ban a revolving door for lobbyists and Congress members, White House staff for 12 years
9. Make White House and Congress ethics rules more strict ad institute punishments for violations
10. Ban Presidential appointments in government or government related bodies of family and relatives
11. Require these appointments permanent terms of 10 years. Only Congress can remove heads from offices
    a. FAA
    b. SEC
    c. FCC
    d. FBI
    e. CIA
    f. FEC
12. Discontinue high security clearance of all ex Congress and White House officials
13. Each media - TV, website and radio must publish their advertising revenue and endowment numbers by source/donor each year

Any candidate that talks about this will get support from both sides. It is not rocket science. Trump figured this out in 2016.

@St-Sinner The policy has changed in an obvious effort to stop brown people from coming to America. You purposely demonstrating an obtuseness regarding the racist changes aren't worth trying to argue against because no logical argument can get past racial bias.

@redbai
We must obey nation's policies. Period. Opposing the law and helping foreigners break the law is illegal, anti-national and unpatriotic.

@St-Sinner Wrong. When a law is wrong it must be protested against and forced to be changed. Using that simplistic logic slavery would still be in place because it was legal and those who fought to stop it would have been breaking the law.

@St-Sinner Even though, there is a lot of talk about stopping illegal immigration businesses has lobbied states to not pass the E-verify bill. Only some states have it. However, there is a move on to raise the legal immigration number which is currently at 1 million a year. Prior to the Viet Nam war it was 250K year and it has risen ever since. The present US population is almost at par. It is the direct and indirect results of immigration that is adding some 250M to the US population a year and it is NOT sustainable in any shape or form. A video by NumbersUSA even shows how our immigration numbers barely make a mark in the global need. We are not helping the world nor ourselves. We need to rethink this issue. It is driving the move to the right of many developed nations and will continue doing so to every one's (citizens and immigrants) loss. I did not notice any mention of the environment in the list. To some that is not worth worrying about. To me it is the prime issue.

@JackPedigo "It is the direct and indirect results of immigration that is adding some 250M to the US population a year"

I don't believe this is a factual statement. The US is not importing a quarter billion immigrants a year.

@redbai Oops, the number is supposed to be 2.5 million a year. My mistake on that. Indirectly is about number of 1st generation births from newly arrived immigrants. I also read a report about the issue of anchor babies and this number was 250K (that's where the 250 came in) per year. We are one of only a few countries that have this program. It was created to make citizenship status for newly emancipated slaves. It has outlived it's usefulness. When my step-son was in medical school he served in a hospital in El Paso. He told us he was shocked at the number of women sneaking across the border to have their kids here.

@redbai
You should send a letter to the Home Land Security that you are not going to obey the law and go ahead to help the illegal immigrants cross the border. That would be an honest thing to do and put money where the mouth is.

@redbai
Lax implementation of our law and allowing illegal immigrants has been causing the nation problems. The activists support illegality and the taxpaying, law abiding citizens have to pay for the consequences for their and illegal immigrants actions. That must be shut down.

Ronald Reagan legalized 3.5 million illegal immigrants and declared on Capitol Hill that... "Never again. We will gain control our borders and will never allow this to happen."

Guess what happened when the Republicans and Democrats alike allowed to happen while turning the heads away and pandering to vote banks and sacred cows in campaigns? . That illegal immigrant number is now 11 million.

@St-Sinner The argument that immigration "has been cause the nation problems" is ridiculous. So does people running stop signs and crossing lanes without using your blinker.

People who fought against slavery and Jim Crow laws were also "support[ing] illegality and the taxpaying, law abiding citizens [had] to pay for the consequences for their and escaping slaves actions on those law abiding citizens".

So what? Splitting immigrants up and locking them in cages away from other family members has done NOTHING to resolve the issue and is doing nothing but costing the US millions in keeping them in camps instead of letting them go and contribute to society at large as the large majority of them do.

@redbai
The human tendency is when you justify a wrong you will find a thousand reasons to make it sound right. The fact that the nation is complaining, it has been a major election issue, people are coming forward to raise own money to build a border wall, talk show hosts and media are making an outcry every day for the last 40 years, illegal immigrant crimes are well publicized and nation elected someone like Donald J Trump when he promised strict actions against illegal immigration .... all go against your argument. If immigrants were not a problem we would not talk about it for 30 - 40 years, would we?

The normal human reaction should be... wait, there is something illegal here to begin with. Let us not support a cause of people crossing borders illegally and not going to US missions to ask for asylum instead.

But the nature of the illegal immigration special industry is you must continue with illegal activity. I am telling you that it cannot stand and it cannot continue. The law abiding, tax paying citizens will shut it down.

Let immigrants follow the rules, apply for asylum, visa etc. at the US embassies in the origin of their country and we will welcome them as legal immigrants.

So illegal immigrants - NO, legal migrants - YES. That is not difficult to understand..

@St-Sinner "If immigrants were not a problem we would not talk about it for 30 - 40 years, would we?"

Depends on the substance of the complaint. Given that racism is an integral part of the American experience, the racist policies and dialog that have been put in place and publicly discussed, respectively, are not unusual at all. They fit into the national dialog of racist in power very easily and blaming brown people for the issue of America is as American as apple pie.

Your definition of a "normal human reaction" is nothing but self-serving pseudo-logic. Insistence on obeying bad laws is simply stupid. The idea that laws and policies are easily understood sounds more purposeful obtuseness to allow racist policies. You know, the actual manifestation of these racist laws you back.

@redbai
As a citizen, your first duty is to help the nation and its citizens do better, not help foreigners break the law. American Indians are living poorly on reservations for centuries. So why are you here? What gives the right to be here? Can you leave? White American did irreparable harm to black slaves for 300 years. Why are you not fighting for their rights instead of Central and Latin American immigrants and help break the law?

Which are the higher causes as a citizen of the United States?

@St-Sinner I'm here because my ancestors were stuck in the bowels of a ship and enslaved for generations.

You don't have the right or knowledge to define what MY first duty to anything is.

I was born here.

Yes, I can leave.

Because oppression and doing something about it is not something that I think should only be directed at that which only oppresses me.

There are no "higher causes as a citizen of the United States".

Nothing in your comments or questions address the inhuman actions derived from the disgusting policies. Your only concern seems to be that everyone obey laws regardless of their ethical or moral rationalizations. That's what robots do, human beings use discretion.

@JackPedigo You may not care, but FYI, I find the phrase "anchor baby" to be insulting. Also, your son-in-law's shock is not any kind of measurement regarding the phenomena. As far as the constitutional amendment that allows for a person born here to be a citizen, I'm always intrigued by how such policies always seem to no longer have a purpose once white people no longer need them regardless of how they affect POC.

@redbai We are but one of a very few countries with this practice. So what term should we use? I too have a problem with the idea of putting people ahead of the system that supports all life. My late partner (an immigrant) once asked her 2nd graders a question: what is more important people or dirt. Overpopulation is a serious problem for the planet and it affects everyone and thousands of other species. It is not just about 'white' people. When our species crashes at least we won't have to tell the future generations not born that human rights were more important than human survival.

@JackPedigo Why not just call it a child or a baby?

I have no idea what your late partner, species crashing or overpopulation has to do with this conversation at all.

@redbai Sorry, it's not that easy. The circumstances of birth can and do have repercussions. Life is complex and getting more so by the day and I, for one, will not try to simplify complex issues. The only way we will heal the human life support system is to recognize our place on this planet and the #1 objective is to cur our enormous population. If we don't do this willingly and 'humanly' nature will do it for us. Another term is 'Birthright Citizenship.'

@JackPedigo Why isn't it that easy? Is there some magical force making you come up with disparaging names for other human beings? And what does that have to do with the population of the planet? There are just as many people on the planet whatever country they are in.

@redbai I may be dense but I cannot find any 'deplorable names' I supposedly called others. Please understand I have been heavily involved in the environmental movement for 25+ years (member of numerous organizations including boards, reading, teaching, doing activities, writing). It seems I must like beating my head against walls as it happens all the time especially with people who who have preconceived ideas about our place in the universe and the importance of protecting (not) our life support system on this planet. Some want to learn (including myself and I am always learning) but some just want to point fingers. The way things are going in this conversation it is a lost cause for me and I will stop. BTW it is not people as such that are the problem but their activities. Recently the US had the carbon footprint equal to 10 times that of the average country in the world. Studies have shown that the average immigrant increases their carbon footprint and greenhouse gas emissions by 400%. Again, this is not a simple issue but very, very complicated.

@JackPedigo Yesterday you said, "I also read a report about the issue of anchor babies"

"Anchor babies" is an offensive term. I've already made that point and apparently you simply ignored it. I have no idea how you got onto the tangent of carbon footprints.

While I certainly understand the scrutiny of Turkey in lieu of recent events with the Kurds, I cannot help but wonder why wait so long? The Ottomans committed their crimes against humanity more than 100 years ago. If the Armenian Genocide were so shocking to the American consciousness and so morally repugnant, why wait 100 years to condemn it?
More political posturing & nothing more. As for Omar, I don’t reside in her Minnesota district and am therefore powerless to do anything about her position. Only her constituents in Minnesota can do that. So why waste energy in opining on anything she does to my dislike?

@publius65 Lol I feel free to opine about reps not from my district or even my state and as far as I am concerned you are welcome to do likewise.

g

She is saying first things first and don't be fucking hypocrites. I agree with her.

Ah, but she wouldn't be in the news now, would she? Sometimes, for strategic reasons, It is better to raise a little hell and get heard than to quietly go along with the flow. After all, the Armenian resolution passed resoundingly with or without her, and in any case, does the Armenians little good. She tied it to other genocides that are much closer to us and clearly need addressing.

@suiattle that is actually a good point. Publicity is good for politicians and yes, we have issues closer to home that need light shined in them.