As often as I have brought this up with believers I have never had a lucid response.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I wouldn't expect their historians to record the execution of an itinerant street preacher and rabble-rouser, either. It's clear that the historical person Yeshua ben Yosef, if he existed, had little of the importance given him by the books of the NT. He would never have been judged by Pilate in person, would never have been the victim of a conspiracy of the Jewish rabbis, and it is very doubtful that he preached new doctrines to attentive crowds.
What he might have done (what doubtless happened, in fact) is attract a core of disciples who embellished his deeds over decades, then added the template of the Greek mystery hero who dies and is born again to make him an immortal Messiah (thus one-upping all the other Messiahs).
That's IF he existed. In that backwater of the Roman Empire, as I said, I don't find it that surprising that he escaped the notice of history until much later, when he had become the central figure of a religion.
Paul4747
Level 8
Dec 14, 2019
0
You say what "doubtless" happened...
I say there is a LOT of doubt he existed at all, itinerant street preacher or not. Also in doubt any such person had any disciples because there is considerable "doubt" about that as well.
Far more likely is the whole story was made out of whole cloth decades after the events in question supposedly happened.
Far more plausible was there WERE no "Christians," including "disciples,' in that period in question, because there was no such man to begin with.
Believers are incapable of successfully defending discrepancies in their histories.
Most of them don't even know the history of their religions, or their "holy" books.
They're woefully ignorant of nearly everything connected to their beliefs.
What's worse is that they're completely content to wallow in their ignorance.
KKGator
Level 9
Dec 13, 2019
5
Yet, Bart Ehrman absolutely thinks there was an actual person at the root of the myths that later arose about him. He just wasn't the large-crowd-gathering miracle-worker he was later made out to be.
Joanne
Level 7
Dec 14, 2019
3
Sounds reasonable that it was born from a real person(s) who got turned into a myth. Like Babe Ruth.
SCal:
Simply one of many possible postulations.
I highly respect Dr. Erhman, he has been in many ways a mentor. He has failed to prove that Jesus was a historical person, every bit of evidence he presents lacks actual proof. I think he is concerned about his Job when it comes to this as he works at a Christian University.
@DavidLaDeau Most Biblical historians think there is enough circumstantial evidence to deduce that an actual person, at the root of the myth, existed.
If this Jesus had been completely fabricated, they would have done a better job of it. Instead, there are inconsistencies-- not only in his life, but in supposedly fulfilling prophecies.
Inconsistencies and poorly fulfilled prophecies are not consistent with a god man that was fabricated out of thin air by a group of conspirators.
That the books of the New Testament show his evolution from being a mortal human (yet chosen by this God) to becoming the God of the universe himself, a couple of centuries later, is very consistent with a growing myth about an actual person in which the details were not agreed upon, or universally known, among various groups of early Christians.
At any rate, it does not matter. The actual Jesus (or whomever inspired the myth) was not what he was later made out to be. Turning him into God was a total fabrication that took decades, even centuries; and, in doing this, Pagan beliefs were borrowed from and expanded upon by the growing Church who saw this myth of Jesus as a powerful tool.
The Jesus story was a adaptation of personification of astrological stories. There were several messiah stories with very similar themes because they were all based on the same astrological themes.
snytiger6
Level 9
Dec 14, 2019
3
Humm - very interesting and makes as much sense as other interpretations.
I think he's just a superhero sprung from someone's imagination.... like Batman. A useful tool for keeping the masses in line.
TheoryNumber3
Level 8
Dec 15, 2019
1
Interesting quote considering he argues strongly for the historicity of Jesus against mythicists.
jdubbs1066
Level 4
Dec 14, 2019
3
...and don't forget, the Romans wrote down everything! They were quit organized. And there is apparently plenty of documentation of very minor criminals and their punishments. You would think that Jesus would have cause quite the sensation, and been on a lot of documents.
Reignmond
Level 7
Dec 15, 2019
1
And the Greeks and Romans were as meticulous about keeping records as the Egyptians. No mention of a messiah, or even a persecuted human named Jesus. No mention of a great flood, either.
Deb57
Level 8
Dec 14, 2019
1
The great flood and some of those instances you need to look at the poem Epic of Gilgamesh. Mesopotamia 2100 BC. Some "scholars" denote that the christian old testament borrowed from the Jewish bible (Tanak) which borrowed from the Epic of Gilgamesh. =
Also, the Greeks do have a myth whereby Zeus destroys humankind in a great flood. The Noah figure is named Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha. That isn't evidence that it is historical, but it is important that we keep our claims accurate.
WOW! Learn something new every day. Never could get interested in the Bible, religious teaching or the history of all those people from so long ago but I have come to understand human nature has not changed in all these thousands of years. The sagas and tales, epic poems and today 4 hour movies and TV serials all tell of good and evil, greed, deceit, love and redemption. It's all very entertaining 
.
My question is why do some need fear to motivate them to do right? Or guilt?
I did enjoy the movie "The Shack". I learned very early the person responsible for my happiness or sorrow is me, I take responsibility for that, there is no dude in the sky gonna make me better or whole, PLUS who am I to judge anyone else? So this idea of a trinity was an interesting concept and God portrayed by a stout black woman was very fun. The actor who played Jesus was hot - um, a hot Jesus was a new concept . There is a woman who lives in the apartment complex where I live whose head damn near exploded over this version of the tale that was amusing.
There are two creation tales Genesis chapter 1 where everything gets made, including men and women then in Genesis part 2 (is it a sequel or prequel?) there is Adam and Eve. I have asked clergy to please explain and they can't. I have like other books I become bored with reading flip to the end and read, Revelations gets interesting, in a dystopian sort of way but Blade Runner does dystopia better, visually I mean.
For a fun take "O Brother, Where Art Thou" was great and the music so much better.
silverotter11
Level 9
Dec 14, 2019
2
At best Jesus was just some schmuck chosen at random and heavily embellished, much like Robinhood or Santa Claus who was Kris Kringle then saint Nick and then Santa Claus. But the mystical Jesus that is portrayed in the Gospels never existed nothing more then a combination of mythologys that predates was Christianity,, mirthra, Horus, and Krishna for example all bore identical traits to the mystical Jesus.
Ritchie
Level 6
Dec 14, 2019
2
Well it’s in the Bible. Who needs more than that?
indirect76
Level 7
Dec 14, 2019
1
Jesus started becoming important about 300 years after his death. We do not know exactly when he was born or when he died. I'm sure you know more about uncle Charlie. Most of what we attribute to a man named Jesus actually came about through Saul of Tarsus. Saul never knew or met Jesus.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Dec 14, 2019
0
@Storm1752 He may or may not have ever been born, but Christianity is all based on the words and teachings of Saul of Tarsus. Good old Apostle Paul. It is claimed that he wrote a big portion of the New Testament. If there ever was a Jesus and he was crucified everything after that event came about to give an explanation of "why." Even today people just keep on making shit up.
Sounds just like these obstructionist republicans defending trump with the same BS they spew for their Jesus being a god and their lord!!!
of-the-mountain
Level 9
Dec 14, 2019
1
Wouldn’t worry mate, far more interesting things in the world to give attention to.
Geoffrey51
Level 8
Dec 14, 2019
1
This is especially interesting since Jesus (Yeshua) was an extremely common name. Imagine if you did not see anything written in the Newspaper about body named "Bob".
Besides, Jesus was not the prophesized name of the Messiah. But even then, "Immanuel" was not an uncommon name either.
Reignmond
Level 7
Dec 15, 2019
0
There is some evidence of existence that's it
bobwjr
Level 10
Dec 14, 2019
0
Show it to us...
@JorgeOchoa common name and naked archeologist did goodr research as to existence not so called deeds
There is NO evidence of existence...THAT'S it.
SCal:
No bob! Noooooooooooo!
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