How far into the future would you be willing to carry that philosophy? If, in a hypothetical future, the voting choices were between Donald Trump and someone light years worse than him, would you vote for Trump?

@skado - I don't want to imagine anyone worse than Trump....and yet, I suppose worse is out there (probably not Democrats though )

@LizBeth
I didn't want to imagine anyone worse than George Jr. but I was forced to. I realize now, it can always be worse, whether we want to imagine it or not. At some point we have to think about how far we are willing to be led down this path. It's useful, I think, to decide what that point is, before we are confronted with it in reality. I've already gone along with it farther than I would have if I had made my commitment in advance. As long as we keep sucking it up, they'll keep giving us more to suck up. I'm done with that.
If somebody wants my vote, they have to convince me they will represent me. Biden hasn't convinced me. I'm not giving away free votes anymore out of fear. If they want it they can earn it. If Biden wins, the next Republican will be worse than Trump, because we have given them permission to. My vote is reserved for someone who has convinced me he/she will push the other direction, not just hold the status quo until the next monster arrives. If that means six more Trump administrations, it's not my fault. It's the fault of people who kept being talked into to voting for less than what they really wanted, like I was the last two times. Progress is hard. Backsliding is easy. Best wishes.

@skado Unfortunately, we must work within the system while trying to change the system. Biden was not my first choice, but I am not so put out that I will "cut off my own nose to spite my face". In the USA, there are only 2 choices when it comes to a viable winning candidate (the leading Rep and the leading Dem)... I wish that a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.... candidate were viable options, but they just aren't at this point in time (I have voted for 3rd party candidates in the past). I too, thought nobody could be worse than W....but Cheetoman takes first place in the 'Worst' category right now and I am not going to throw away my vote by 'not' trying to get rid of him. If Trump is re-elected, it is all our own damn fault and we will all live with the consequences....until enough of us get fed up and do something about him (and those like him) by voting in better candidates and/or changing the system (election reforms).

@LizBeth
What we have in common is that we would like to see Trump gone. Unfortunately, the political challenges won't end when that happens, and it will happen eventually, one way or the other. What will continue after Trump is gone, is the rightward slide that has been continuing since at least Reagan, if not before. Each cycle, the choices are a little more scary, and require a little more compromise, if we feel obligated to stay "within the system."
What's your plan for turning that around? Just voting within the system clearly isn't working. We should never have let Trump in to begin with. I see that as an unacceptable failure. In the bigger picture, what are we doing wrong? How do we turn it around after Trump?

@skado "We should never have let Trump in to begin with. I see that as an unacceptable failure." Yes. I cried on election night 2016 not believing what I was seeing and hearing. I am just an average middle aged lady in a small town in Ohio. I have neither wealth or power. I (alone) cannot effect change. However, what I can do is to become as informed as I can, share knowledge with others, turn out for causes I believe in, encourage others to vote, and vote myself.

One thing I do take heart in is that historically, the pendulum tends to swing back and forth between very conservative and liberal.

@LizBeth
I don't have wealth or power either. What I have is a vote and a mouth. I respect everybody's right to vote as they see fit. That's what democracy is. I feel that supporting candidates who don't support me enables system decay. I can't give my support to Joe. None of us can do anything alone, and there is an obvious division of values brewing in the Democratic party right now. Voting our values is how that conflict gets worked out, insofar as it can be worked out inside the system. Voting our fears is what postpones, and makes worse the eventual reckoning. . ( IMO )

@skado I get what you are saying on the 'moral highground' level. I wish my candidate was going to get the nomination too....but since they are not (apparently not enough people agree with me), I will do the next best thing. Getting Trump out is the first step. Biden certainly is not worse than Trump.

@LizBeth
Who is your candidate?

@skado Sanders

@LizBeth
How can he win if we don't vote for him?

Be brave. You will be taunted for your willingness to vote for anyone but Bernie - as I have been. You're not alone. Hopefully others will join us. If Bernie was the delegate we would vote for him. I'm optimistic to think it could work both ways.

@BitFlipper
You won’t get any taunting from me; just cool, calm, rational, and respectful dialogue. If there weren’t different views, we wouldn’t need to hold elections. Discussion is good.

@LizBeth
I haven’t spoken about the moral highground level. I’m talking about (what appears to me to be) the most pragmatic, and shortest route.

@skado @BitFlipper I was speaking of the general election..... I am still planning to vote Sanders in the primary which does not happen in Ohio until 3/17..... as long as Sanders is still running, I am still voting for him.

@skado I think the shortest route to getting rid of Tump is voting him out of office and the only way to do that is getting enough people to agree to vote for the only possible winning alternative....and that will be whoever gets the Democratic nomination...... but if we don't put personal preferences aside, we will be stuck with more orange nonsense. Biden is not my ideal candidate (too centrist for me).... but I won't do anything to support the re-election of an anti-science, lying, narcissistic, misogynist who only cares for himself and the 1%.

It’s not trolling, friend. It’s just how it’s starting to look to me. It’s a very sad day.

It shouldn’t. Sad thing is ..I once respected his opinion…