Recently saw the Ehrman/Butt debate on suffering. I felt both participants largely missed the mark in this one. Kyle Butt sounds like most of those trying to make their apologetics seem rational and well thought out. He brings this quote to mind -

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"Theologian: An uncommon individual who, though possessing finite abilities, has been called by God himself who, though possessing infinite abilities, requires the assistance of the former in explaining Himself to the rest of us."

[Translation: if God existed, theologians would be out of work.] ~ "Rev" Donald Morgan

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I felt Mr. Ehrman was on the right of the issue, but still wasn't as compelling in his arguments as I would have hoped for.

One of the things I rarely see addressed is this. Most of us with the least bit of empathy suffer intensely when confronted with the extreme pain and suffering that others have endured. I'd guess we all have instances of psychic scarring involving trauma we've encountered, whether our own, those we care deeply for, or just a fellow living creature, human or otherwise.

It is said there are no tears in heaven, but for that to be true, we'd basically have to be victims of a mind wipe. I was once part of a Harvard Veritas panel as the atheist representative amongst other religious panelists, discussing the question of if life has a purpose. I said that if any of us present imagined the nothingness before "creation" and then fast forwarded to an instance of great cruelty and suffering (I used the example of the murdered child Samantha Runnion), that as far as I was concerned, there would be no religionist tale that would have me look at that unbearable occurrence and say, "OK God, I see why this had to happen as part of your grand scheme and final exam for eternity." I said that I as a flawed human being have a greater moral center than the so-called omnipotent, omnibenevolent creator of the universe.

One other point that I would have included has to do with the book by C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain. In Christian theology, pain is needed for humans to learn in order that their souls may transition to eternal life. Since animals don't have souls, why is it that they suffer? Lewis posits something I find completely horrific. He theorizes that maybe God only makes it look as if they're suffering, but in reality spares them. They are like "a clockwork orange," merely appearing to suffer. I find this ludicrous rationalization obscene on so many levels. Pure crazy talk.

What do you actually want to know? I guess you can think of yourself, realizing that all of religion is based on indoctrination, already starting with children that are trusting and believing whatever their parents tell them, or on a system of convincing people with all kinds of magical promises. Religion, at least Christianity is based on a book with stories with a mix of history and fairytales. The strongest religious base that you can imagine. If the history is true, then the magic also must be true.
I keep wondering why people that decide to reject religion immediately start to connect with a group of atheists. I guess it is the need of people to share their beliefs. I just decided to reject religion in general. What other people do is their problem. I don't need to replace one belief system with another belief system. I take my own thinking as a lead.

I believe Dan Barker left Christianity because he finally found no valid reasons for its belief. Religions always want to blame the ones who leave them. If it is done any other way they would have to doubt themselves instead. The religious crutch does not work that way.

Congratulations on your escape from Moronism. I escaped in my late 20's. It feels so good to be free from those fetters!

A point or two in my origin post apparently need clarification. I believed I had read that the issue of human suffering was one which Dan Barker had written was a reason he had questioned his faith. I have not read Barker's book, but mamy years ago I had read several articles by him and about him. The specifics of what I read a long time ago are sometimes a little fuzzy. I wanted to try to clarify my memory so I attempted to find something through a Google search. The Wintery Knight website was listed as part of the search. Looking at the summary on the search, I thought the Wintery Knights site might hold the answer I was looking for. It didn't, but it did trigger an old pet peeve al about religionists who belittle the struggle and turmoil of at least some of us who questioned and eventually left our religion. I never doubted that Dan Barker didn't have valid reasons why he left Christianity, nor do I believe that any of the 4 reasons suggested by the Wintery Knights site was one of Barker's reasons.

Wintery Knight is not a site I would regularly visit or read from. My comment was from a negative reaction to it. Going to the site at all was due to the snippet Google offered in response to my search which did not reveal the kind of site it was.

I've talked to a few preachers who left their faith, and one of the first things they could no longer believe is the concept of hell. Once you realize there are parts you no longer believe, it's easy for the thread to start unraveling.

Who cares?

I have heard Barker say that he left after he actually read the Bible and could see no reason to believe.

None of the four reasons you listed have anything to do with the reasons Barker left religion.
Or reasons I left.
I left , and became much more humane, because there is no Sky Daddy. We do the best we can while we are here then we are gone.
EDIT: Having read the bit from Wintery, it seems like more Xian fear tactics. The last line says it all. To the effect of God's gonna punish you for even questioning him

Three suggestions, if I may: 1) read Dan Barker's book Godless--it's a very good read; 2) try using a word processor or grammarly on your posts; and 3) don't use Christian apologetics--Wintery Knight? Are you f'ing kidding me?--as your point of reference.

The article you post is full of shit. Who the fuck cares why? Be happy that he's free from brainwashing now.

Read his book Godless.