At least Sanders could get into the white house. The Biden campaign is dead on arrival against Trump.

A social democrat president with an unwilling Congress is better than another Trump term.

@RoboGraham Is that in your opinion or that of a supreme being of some kind?

@yvilletom

It is an observation of the reality we are facing.

Do you believe Joe Biden can beat Trump? How?

@RoboGraham Got it. Your view is the only view, so it's as a supreme being sees it.

@yvilletom

My view is not the only view. You have a view as well. Care to express it?

@RoboGraham First, you admit to fallibility.
What does a Sanders presidency need from others?
What will cause a Biden presidency to fail?
What will a second Trump presidency teach Americans?

@yvilletom

Fallibility, sure everyone and everything is fallible.

A Sanders presidency would need all the same things any other presidency needs.

A Biden presidency won't fail because it won't happen at all.

More trump will show Americans that we are in desperate need of a progressive to turn things around. Or it could result in actual fascism.

Do you not agree that a gridlocked Sanders presidency would be better than another term with Trump?

@RoboGraham You gave me dogma. I want evidence of thinking.
What are those “same things”? To get them, what will Sanders give?
Re Biden, you are fallible.
Re Trump, what will Americans learn? What will you learn?

@yvilletom

I want to know how you think Biden can beat Trump. I asked you first. Let's see some evidence of thinking on your part.

The point that I'm making is that, even if Sanders gets none of those things, it's still better to have him running the executive branch than another 4 years of Trump.

I can't really say for sure what will be learned from another Trump term. We will certainly find out if Biden is the nominee.

@RoboGraham Stop trying to be infallible.

@yvilletom

I already did. I'm fallible, everyone is fallible. Can you get past this fallibility issue and move on to something substantive?

I'll add your name to the growing list of anti-Sanders people who are incapable or unwilling to attempt provide a persuasive answer to the simple question of- How can Biden beat Trump?

Truth

Damn Straight!

Yup!

@racocn8 Good. Then don't complain about Trump. He's in there because you didn't like Hillary, who would've been light years better than him.

@Storm1752 It's true I didn't like Hillary, but I voted for her. I agree she would have been vastly better than Trump. So I will continue to complain about Trump who is an illegitimate pretender on several counts. (Maybe see my entry above?)

@racocn8 Okay, then you have that right.
I just think it's ridiculous and very bad form for Bernie supporters to condemn other Dem candidates, accusing them of all kinds of nefarious machinations, putting them in the same category as Pub candidates, because he's losing.
What planet are they from? Do they seriously think there's little or no difference between the two groups?
That they also are in the pocket of evil corporate interests and lust only after power?
Don't they understand NOT taking corporate money is tantamount to unilateral disarmament and surrender? That just because they take the contributions doesn't mean they are beholden to them?
All of these corporations give to both parties to ensure they have SOME access should their preferred party not win. But that doesn't mean they give equally with equal enthusiasm.
The Dems are by far the underdog.
Bernie is an outlier. He takes individual donations only, much like Ralph Nader did when he ruined Gore's candidacy. Just like he did in 2016 when he ruined Hillary's (in much less dramatic fashion).
That's great. Good for him. I voted for him and if he's the Dem candidate I will again.
But if he isn't, I'll vote for whoever is and hope like heck he or she wins.
If some fellow liberals and progressives don't, and the Donald and his crappy party wins again, they'll be to blame, and I hope they're happy and proud of themselves.

@Bobby9 What it tells me is my fellow liberals care more about charisma than issues, apparently.

Totally agree.
I think some of these Bernie or Bust people must be trolls. Democracy means taking into consideration, and respecting, the retards who don't see Bernie as the Old Gray Semitic Savior, and means getting someone in there who'll not cause an instinctive gag reflex and automatic Trump vote.
You and I know better, but a lot of morons don't see things our way and will crucify us if we nominate a truly enlightened person like Sanders.
(P.S. I now think Biden has become borderline senile, but too late to choose someone else.)

@Storm1752 I’m viewing them as Trolls, and ‘these’ are their platforms of choice I once voted Green, then watched the ‘green party’ receive around 2% of the vote, while ‘bad guys’ won. I learned a life lesson.

Our system is binary, with winner (usually) taking all. If those posting here are truly the intellectual elite they should be, as thinking people, you’d think they’d also be intelligent enough to realize, not everyone’s up to their level of enlightenment. Fuck yes - I’d love the mentality of a Bernie in charge - but the fact is, he wouldn’t be - he’d become a rallying cry for the opposition - thus (as mentioned) pinned down tight by Republicans!

So, we’ve got to go with the flow.. And if the flow is comfortable with Biden, so be it. I detect age, too, and suspect his would be a one term deal. What I’m pissed at are the fuckin Governors having sat this one out … assuming the Sander’s crew would blow them away … waited for his presidential loss to trump, ‘then’ decide to run for president four years later - assuming there’d still be an office to hold.. ..least that’s how I’ve read it.

We’ve gotta take this from trump, and if the mass is OK with Biden, me too. Maybe I’m over sensitive around here … and should ignore these trolls like most appear to do … but that’s what happened four years ago - and, they’re back

No, he doesn't.. He participated in the ‘rewriting’ of the new & current Democratic Primary Rules, even though he’s not even a Democrat. Democrats are like that, fair ~ That’s the situation, not ‘the DNC,’ or the multitude of individuals having sought the presidency...

Bernie will get the shaft because he has no Democratic Socialists in Congress. Hero worship is not a winning strategy.

"I voted for someone I don't like and didnt get what I want", vs "I voted for someone I like and didnt get what I want". The results are exactly the same for you- you can cry and wring your hands and be a drama queen. However the results for the rest is us, who have to deal with DT, really do matter. We care more about our future than your feelz of self righteousness. (do you live in an alternate reality? Are you a trust fund baby?)

@MarkiusMahamius

"I voted for someone I don't like and didnt get what I want" = I caved on my principals and morality and nothing positive came out of it.

"I voted for someone I like and didnt get what I want = I exercised my right to vote for a candidate who represents my ideology, morality, and needs but many other people didn't so we got more evil. However, because I voted in a logical way, rather blue no matter who, the corrupt establishment now understands that my vote must be earned rather than granted out of blind loyalty.

The results are not the same. If you are tired of choosing the lesser of two evils, stop doing it. Vote for a candidate who deserves your vote. The two parties can't continue to win if we don't continue to give away our votes to them.

I have to deal with DT also. I know damn well that the party's choice, Biden, has not a snow balls chance in hell of beating DT, so I feel no obligation in voting for that republican lite when I know Trump will get another term regardless. Care about the future? Stop handing over your vote to shitty centrist dems who don't beat the republicans and govern basically as if they are republican if they do manage to win.

Trust fund baby? Nope, poor. Always have been, always will be. Alternative reality? I fucken wish.

Thank you troll.
More like, we can't win if we don't vote.
I think we win this time.
And not because of 'purist perfectionists' like you.

@RoboGraham i could get begind that attitude about not buying the same old garbage, if it was for a third party. We need that, absolutely and without a doubt. Its actually pretty frustrating that Bernie took all the energy from frustrated not-republicans like yourself (a huge amount) and turned it into a self-pitying contest. The logic is still "my vote doesnt matter but at least i feel better about myself as i fall on my sword".

At least third party candidates can make a real change in how the gop or dnc positions itself, to scrape up those votes. And eventually they will build the infrastructure to mount the same kinds of campaigns that the two big parties do now. If they can get good candidates and a solid backing. By joining the dems, all Bernie did is give himself a platform for his last hurrah, encourage his followers to throw their votes into the pits of the dnc (who just uses them as TP).

Im looking fwd to a new candidate emerging. I think theres a good chance Romney will really pick up steam in the next couple months. Dont like him, but hes at least a better option than Biden, if not for age and health alone. Tulsi Gabbard might come back. I think whatever happens will be a surprise. Cuomo will be involved in at least some speech making on the national stage, and if Biden really fails (has a major medical event or such) he may step in to a DNC role. Not a fan of the DNC, but thatd still be a big move for them... they can't stop with the moderate dinosaurs. For all we know the libertarians might surprise us with their candidates too. Not a libertarian but id vote for one, just to get their numbers up, to keep the major parties from holding the system hostage.

@Storm1752

How do yo plan to win?

@MarkiusMahamius

We already have 3rd parties. They aren't very successful. If Bernie had embraced a third party, it would have split the left. If he can become the leader of the democratic party, most democrats would vote for him and whoever else he manages to bring in. But the establishment will never allow it so I guess you're right, third party would have been the better strategy.

Are you saying Romney could become the democratic nominee? I think even the democrats wouldn't be dumb enough to nominate someone from the other party. I do hope they shake it up in some way though. Biden as the nominee is unacceptable. People will exit the party and it will be a near guaranteed Trump win. I doubt Tulsi will be involved in whatever happens. The establishment hates her. She is a Russian asset.

However it goes down, they'll find a way to bungle it.

@RoboGraham no I don think romney will become the dem nominee, but I think there is a chance he will step in of DT keeps bungling things, and I think many moderates would consider him a viable option for "anyone but trump".

You say Bernie didnt start/join a thied party because it would split the left, yet you are advocating splitting the left by sitting this election out? Makes no sense

@MarkiusMahamius

I think Trump has a strangle hold on the republican party. Ain't no way anyone can challenge him unless he really screws up epically.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I advocate sitting out the election. I never miss an opportunity to vote and I am in favor of as many people as possible voting in all elections. I'm advocating that people choose to vote for non-rightwing candidates. With Biden as democratic nominee, there is no left to split. There is a right wing candidate vs. a more moderate right wing candidate.

When both options are garbage, it makes more sense to vote for the greens or libertarians as you mentioned or write in a leader who you actually like. That way, you stay true to you principles, demonstrate to the establishment that your vote can not be demanded, and the result of the election will be unchanged.

YOUR influence? Hahaha. And what influence is THAT?
You're either a troll, a fool, or just plain lazy in the head.

@Storm1752

Your vote is your influence dimwit.

For the vast majority of us who do not have great wealth, celebrity or high status in society, our vote is the only tiny bit of influence we have short of protest and boycott.

I'll ask again, what's your plan to win with Biden? I'm having a very difficult time finding anyone willing to try and come up with an answer to that question.

Why would a bot need a group?

...if only they’d stay there

@RoboGraham YOU need a bot group, troll.

@Storm1752

You need a troll group, bot.

Thank you.