A raging example of why I've had quite enough of all this religious BS. This, from my Sister - just yesterday, got my hackles up, after I told her her good thoughts were most sufficient ....
I pray for you because there is power in prayer and I have seen it again and again for the last 47 years. Good wishes are fine, but there is nothing to back them up. My biggest concern for you is leaving this earth without knowing the one who made you, who loves you, and longs to have a relationship with you.
Not church, not politics, not denominations, but actually knowing the living God, our creator, the one who made us and the entire natural world that you so love. This will be my message until my last breath. It is that important. If I die, I know where I am going, and would love to see you there one day.
Millions of people are not deceived, the message has not changed in 2000 years! The funny thing is, if you start talking to God, He will make himself known to you! It is amazing. You do not have to change who you are, just open the door to communication. On those nights when you can't sleep....start talking, get to know Him...tell Him you don't believe in Him and think this is stupid. Tell Him you are scared to death and this whole situation really sucks! Tell Him you wish your little sister would get off your case...(but she won't because she loves you).
Tell Him you are sick of all the hypocrites, and ridiculous behavior of "so-called Christians" Tell Him that you do not understand how any God could allow hurt and pain in this world....He can take it all, and you will begin to get the answers you so desperately long for....
There is so much assumption in this, and so much absolute lunacy. My response, while succinct and respectful, was not particularly kind. In no uncertain terms I warned her to back off - or the gap between us is likely to irreversibly widen. We're at opposite ends of the East coast - which would make that quite easy ! Gr-r-r
"if you start talking to God, He will make himself known to you!" - Sadly this is true. If you talk to yourself long enough, you will go crazy and start "hearing" something answering you.
Especially if you do it while experiencing insomnia or great stress.
"On those nights when you can't sleep....start talking,get to know Him." - exactly....
LOL she knows no history of her own faith. Does she not know there are VERSIONS of christian holy texts? In that tiniest respect it is obvious that texts have been changed in the last 2000 years. Not to mention, we know of different governments, of different denominations, changing texts to suit their agendas/interests (ie King Henry 8 so he could remarry). But of course, her ignorance is her bliss, it seems.
I'm not sure if she is being condescending about your life or if she trying to justify her own life but the over-the-top reaction to a simple comment shows that she is very defensive and thin skinned. Be glad that you are not trapped in this mindset and I truly hope she calms down for both of you.
Her argument is so convincing and so similar to the ones that I hear from my ‘kin!’ These people are not going to change... is what I believe now. They have developed this image outside themselves and it is their lifeline...it is more real than if they were drowning and a real person threw them a lifeline! Their response would be that god heard their ‘pray’ and sent ‘you’ to save them! It is a narrative wrapped up so completely perfect in their minds, that nothing is going to shake it loose...and I do mean ‘loose’ ...as in small cracks to allow just a little new information to seep in.
This Bible has been the downfall of many persons...reading the same words day after day, year after year...that’s when the ‘words’ rob the person of their ability to reason or question the reality of God, Jesus, or a Holy Spirit! Then there is a preacher who works them over weekly and let’s not forget ‘Bible Study’ in between! They are hooked for life and now have a personal relationship’ with God, Jesus and Holy Spirit all wrapped up into one...their minds can take them there at any moment after it has been imprinted on every synapses in their brain! I see no easy way to free these people from their bondage.
Which leads me to the point that I have no desire to change anyone's belief system - knock yerself out Sister - or whoever - just leave me the F alone !
There are several things I could point out from what you have written, for brevity I will just comment on a couple. You said, "...how any God could allow hurt and pain in this world ..."
This is just a couple things written as to what biblical God thingie said; Isaiah 45:7 ..."I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” and Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
These type of God thingie statements cover evolutionary processes of how people animals are killed of in ways that contribute to population control of people animals especially those genetically weaker or not as smart get killed off and the stronger smarter survive to reproduce giving for a population of stronger smarter people animals eradicating weaker stupid ones.
So, biblicaly you could consider that what is evolutionary processes they are calling it "God" in the bible.
Then, I won't go into long detail explanation but I have made comments and posts before explaining that if people actually understood biblical theme, plot, story line etc. Jesus character is Angelic lord of host Lucifer the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipers since their freedom from England July 4th, 1776 to rape this land from the original indigenous inhabitants calling them such as Mexicans, Indian and native American. The explanation of this is rather long, complicated and requires observation from many ancient and historical text to explain and most people are just too stupid to understand or do that deep of research. Otherwise, If you or anyone knew well enough they could ward off "so called Christians" and possibly bring Christianity to an end. How could it end Christianity you ask? If Christianity knew and understood how the biblical text points that Jesus character is Angelic lord of host Lucifer the devil and Not. "Good God thingie" then they just might quit being Christians. This is why I left Christianity.
@JohnnyQB As to Osiris of Egypt:
He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.
John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”
This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).
John 1:1 In the beginning was the logos, the logos was with God and was God.
Logos, thought/word capabilities. What is anything with out cognition or thinking ability?
What is the highest of concepts to understand? Knowledge of good and evil.
Can cognition create? As written, Jesus character say: ... that born of pneuma is Pnuema. I think "Ruach"would be used instead of Pnuema if originally written in Hebrew. Ruach and Pnuema translated into English is Spirit which as a connotation of ghost. This I think is an error to use spirit with or as a connotation for ghost.
Jesus character referred to himself as "son of man". The man (people) having the Egyptian logos thoughts spoke Jesus character into existence. This follows with other themes of biblical ideals the "God" created by simply speaking it into existence. Speaking words is force with information. Ruach is a force. Air molecules have a force with intellageable pattern when words are spoken.
@JohnnyQB The biblical text follows out of Egypt and most do not understand nor know the connections that the biblical text actually saying in new testiment that the Egyptian stories come true.
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25
The "Lord" of Israel was Egyptian.
As to Osiris of Egypt:
But he did not just represent death in the physical world, also rebirth or what you may call being born again.
a) John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
As to Osiris of Egypt:
He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.
John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”
This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).
@JohnnyQB The uneducated with no interest in mystical traditions and the esoteric may regard Ancient Egypt as little more than a place of pagan worship, strange hieroglyphics, and monuments erected by thousands of Hebrew slaves. But those more learned, especially those having undertaken the initiative rituals of Freemasonry, will see a link between the Egyptian metaphysical tradition and modern mystery schools, of which Freemasonry is one. www dot gaia dot com /article/ancient-egypt-and-freemasonry
Lord of host Lucifer the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers in the establishment of the mark of the beast 666 identification for taxation and government control. No justice for the innocent, more children can be trained to speak and act abused to wrongfully prosecute innocent people especially those that oppose there Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worship "my teacher made me touch her p.p ". Take the original indigenous inhabitants of their land call it America call them such as Mexicans, Indians and native Americans
@JohnnyQB I do not specifically consider my self superior to anyone. I am fully aware of my writting and occassional typos. I know what causes my typoes. it is because of an eye disease in my left eye called amblyopia. This, as I was growing up, caused developmental learning issues where that reading, writing and other things with words was difficult not because of comprehension but because of my vision. Otherwise, I can accept that there are things that each person could have a superiority over another person is ways for example. Basketball deity Michael Jordon is known for being superior in that particular activity. Have you ever seen him fly thru the air? I know I am a little shorter than he and a little more weight and I do not consider myself as being superior to his ability to fly.. Then too I ask, have you ever seen a fat man running down the road? but enough for that
@JohnnyQB "You are at odds with every other opinion here ..." opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
So I "push' or repeatedly discuss the fact that things are document for 1000's of years. However, as you say other people here have opinions that are ..."not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."
It sounds to me like a lot of people here would rather hold on to their beliefs than to consider what is facts. I do best as I can to purport the fact that things are written as opposed to not "push" what is written to be absolute truth, but just pointing to the observation of the fact that it is written and how those writtings are connected thru out history.
@JohnnyQB I know, just think if someone would of realized that Forced existence needs to be stopped 1000's of years ago and was able to have implemented a plan to bring forced existence to an end then no one would have to be here right now. People are being forced to exist because of what their parents do and about the best way to bring forced existence to an end would be total abstinence or abortion for everyone.
@JohnnyQB It's not that it's about better for me but for everyone. maybe one day we will get to see brick homes for everyone on earth built by true masons free from mortgage, free from rent, free from taxation free from governmental terrorism and free from religious oppression. free education for everyone on earth of all knowledge, understanding, wisdom, skill, craft, trade and college certification of every kind free from tuition, free from loans and free from any fees. I like to think optimistically, but realistically there's so such hope to be seen.
@JohnnyQB and then, got to consider if forced existence is not brought to an end then ultimately the Sun will explode or expand into a red giant star and burn up everything on earth. people that just want to keep reproducing may work toward getting everything packed onto Noah's spaceship and raptured to most likely Mars. But is that really good for everyone? then to think the Andromeda galaxy is scheduled to splash into the milky way. that could just be a gravitational cluster crap for everyone.
@Word Abstinence is not necessary. Gay and lesbian people could have sex without reproducing. And heterosexual couples can engage in non reproduce sex as well, aka oral, anal and manual sex. Again, abstinence is not necessary to stop reproduction.
@demifeministgal I was using abstinence with implied reproductive activity. otherwise, it is by some definitions to imply alcohol.
the fact or practice of restraining oneself from indulging in something, typically alcohol.
So limited abstinence then? Or do you only count Penis in vagina as sex and abstaining from that, while having other types of sex, is abstinence? Sounds like the "technical virginity" crap teens used in high school. hehe
@demifeministgal by defination "sex" is (chiefly with reference to people) sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse.
Sex is pertaining to actual causation for reproducing.
There are many sexual related activities that people might call sex because it is generally apart of activity that can happen when having sex.
@Word Then your heteronormative definition of sex differs from my more expansive definition of sex.
I can wholeheartedly empathize with you. My sister (my only sibling) also took the drug years ago, and our relationship has been all but non-existent, and she has cut off communication with me a few years back. These situations are beyond sickening, especially in light of the fact that these people value a 2000 year-old zombie more than real people with real feelings.
I have a different take on this. If someone loves me and they honestly believe that if I die while still an atheist that I'm going to be tortured for eternity, then they wouldn't be a very compassionate person if they didn't try to find a way to save me from it. If it comes out of love, then how could that bother you? I haven't told my close relatives about my lack of belief because I don't want them to worry about my "soul", and I don't want to be someone's project.
I would hope, if I did tell them, they would be just as concerned as your sister seems to be.
I'm not saying anyone else should be able to look at it the way I do, but that's my thoughts on it.
I'm happy for you - I am. But my take is, I'd rather not be tortured in this present life ! Well meaning, or not.
I would agree, if they truly believed what they were saying. I think most do not, and their insistence on controlling your thinking is that it is just a control thing. Dunno why they are driven to it though.
The case with my brother is that there are other issues at work and he is very angry at the world, and has specific anger with me. His attempts to claim some spiritual superiority is a sad bid for some sense of esteem.
Sounds like sis drank the Kool-Aid then went back for seconds. They just don't get it. They're so sure their silly supernatural thinking is rational and that a magical superbeing who will save them from death makes perfect sense when everything in that letter is just proof of a deluded, irrational mind.
No disrespect of your sister intended.
Just tell her you’re interested and for her to let god know that he should email you what he wants you to do. God should already have your email address
I'm so glad my sister is a Buddhist. No preaching.
A rational rebuttal of every point made in the religious statement could be made but would never be accepted by the religious. It is therefore a waste of time to try to talk sense into them. They are usually impervious to it. Save your breath and go about your happy and free way.
If he can take it all and is so powerful why oh why is he not doing something about it? Ask her that.
I posed the same question to someone I know who goes to church. I asked, when is god going to stop this because he has the power. I got the standard answer that this virus is the devil's work and that god was testing us. She is a great person but most people use the devil as a convenient scapegoat when bad things happen and then they use the 'god is testing us' answer. Impossible to argue that line of thought.
@yamaha45701 why does he have to do it so often I wonder? How about the worms that bore into children’s eyes in Africa or how about children being born with leukaemia or some other problems, is he testing them?
@yamaha45701 If god is testing us and he is all-knowing then he alreeady knows the results of any test. So that makes the test purposeless.
If it is the devil making everyone suffer and god is all-powerful then why doesn't god simply vanquish evil?
@dare2dream Both you and Jolanta are right and the questions you pose are ones that religious people will not/can not answer. This mythical devil is such a convenient excuse to explain bad things and letting children die is something that I never, never could figure out. Reading the bible, the god of the old testament comes across as very jealous, petty, and at times even bloodthirsty. And god not being able to control the devil? Yea, that always confused me since god is all powerful but apparently has no control over mr. fire and brimstone dude.
It's an abuse of consanguinity to lay a trip like that on you.
thank you for the new word - I had to look it up - which is fun !
Dude, nice use of a word seldom seen!!
You could reply:
On those nights when you can't sleep,
start asking yourself,
have I actually been talking to an imaginary friend, all these years?
Could it be, that god does not exist, outside human imagination?
And then, millions of folks, for thousands of years,
have been talking to their imaginary friend, but agreed, in groups, that this friend is real?
Is it possible, that the human imagination is that powerful?
Could I explain everything that happens, as having natural causes?
Should I start turning my attention to other humans,
helping, and accepting help, from my fellow humans?
Isn't that what we do, every day, anyway?
You could reply, with something like that.
Interesting take on this - thanks. Though this whole thing has annoyed the hell out of me, in her defense, I will say that she has always been a kind and generous person to others, and working in health care - she's on the front lines. Now - if I can just get her to permanently zip it ... !