As far as atheists go, I like to think of myself as respectful, friendly and amiable. But there are others who seem more "militant." I seek harmony and a desire to have respectful discourse, not be at someone's throat. I'm not offended by theists or their traditions. Heck, I even think there are some pretty churches with exquisite stained glass. Nativity scenes don't offend me either. I don't understand what butting heads with theists accomplishes. As a movement, in order to win hearts and minds, we should live our lives positively. I don't want to be the grumpy atheist that turns other people against atheism due to my bad acts. Thoughts?
"Militants" are atheists who don't hide their lack of a belief and they ask that the government acts in accordance with the constitution.
No one is offended by nativity scenes. Religious displays on governement property is against the law. Insert any other religion's display and you'll see why there's a problem.
And what bad acts? Are atheists commiting violence or vandalism?
The things you listed come straight from right-wing propaganda.
Like you, I respect religious people's right to be religious if it feels right to them. I also respect other atheist's right to be militantly antitheist if it feels right to them. So long as both sides avoid personal and physical attacks on the other, it's all fine by me.
They drew first blood.
Ever heard of the wedge document? The crusades? The systematic sexual abuses within Catholic churches? The denial of evolution??The lobbying for their religious agenda to be legislation??? The lies that spew from apologetics???? The indoctrination of our little brothers and sisters in private schools???? The systematic dismantling of our public education system in that effort??????? The crime of preaching the shirking of personal responsibility onto a higher power?????????? How about the idea that nothing we do matters? The sheer nihilism of the idea of an afterlife, and all you have to do is believe???????????????
Agreed. I like to say I'm an atheist but I'm not an asshole about it. And religious people are fine with me as long as they're not assholes about it.
Agree totally. I try to respect the religious until they try to jam something down my throat.
Well, you do you, and I'll do me.
I'm not rabidly anti-theist myself but I'm a deconvert from Christian fundamentalism and I think it's a very harmful ideology and so speak out against it in ways I deem appropriate.
The problem with many such believers is that they dishonestly mischaracterize mere disagreement (even, often, passive disagreement of simply not being one of them) with rudeness, arrogance, rebelliousness, licentiousness and outright deviance. No amount of finessing around their tender sensibilities suffices, they are not satisfied with anything short of humble repentance and joining up. This is not my problem, it is theirs.
Also many such people have a very carefully curated self-image as noble and virtuous when in actual practice they are controlling, vindictive and dickish. This also is not my problem, and so I don't feel any compunctions about pointing out when they are doing these negative things.
More generically, the religious have been accustomed for millennia to un-earned deference and respect in the marketplace of ideas. They are used to their notions being accepted and tap-danced around; anything less is blasphemy or disrespect. You must never question them or critique them. And this begs the question: how would you ever substantively and meaningfully and effectively engage with them at all, then?
Indeed, the most consistent refrain I hear from them is, "if you don't believe in god, why do you talk about him so much?" Which is just a gold-plated way of asking, "Why don't you atheists just shut the hell up?"
Curious what you consider respectful dialogue? I am all for respecting another's beliefs but I want honest discord. In a discussion with a theist of any kind I must point out that they believe in mythology and magic which is what religion is. I hold no animosity toward them it is simply being honest. I usually get attacked by people after I share that, but my tolerance of their right to believe whatever they want does not mean I have to hold out any possibility that some invisible supernatural world exists.
Respect them enough not to respect their stupid ideas. Yeah, you'd be doing a disservice to not engage their beliefs. Why would you let someone you care about live a lie? Personally, I hate it when people walk on eggshells around me. It means they don't trust me to handle it. These ideas are harmful and we should put them to rest. I try not to make it personal too, but people build their identity around this shit. You're going to hurt someone's feelings intentionally or not.
In every group in society, you are going to get sociopaths who will try to dominate thoughts and ideals with their own perspective. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, they end up as leaders of everything in society, it has been a major factor in our civilisation, but it does not need to be so. The people who shout the loudest and try to patronise or 'brow-bash', are starting to be ignored by the silent majority, so in that sense, the future is bright. In todays' reality they look ridiculous So just ignore them
For me it’s not about “respecting their beliefs.” Beliefs are just generalizations we make about the world in the absence of fact. If we had the data, we wouldn’t need the belief.
But DELIVERY is everything. Jon Stewart is my favorite approach to handling dissenting opinions. He took on the opinion, but did so with humor and could brilliantly bring out the absurdity of that type of thinking.
I think a lot of people have been hurt very badly by religion, and that can make respectful discourse a challenge. Ideally, one should be able to rationally, logically, and politely discuss their criticisms of religion and religious people without being rude or disrespectful, but if you've suffered in the past due to the thing you're discussing, it's not always easy.
I agree. id love to make an old church into a house.
I am with you.
I think, when all is said and done, part of the reason I am Agnostic/Atheist is that it was NOT forced on me while too many other religions are all about rubbing your nose in it in hopes that you will become infected.
That said, I have had wonderful talks with Rabbi's, Priests (of various hats), Imams... it's usualy the lay people who have it VERY wrong and try to force it on you (for fear that they if you are happy, then maybe they are wrong, I somtimes wonder).
When you try and point out some ot fhe obvious problems with "Organized Religion" they get very defensive and think you are trying to convert them. They have totally given themselves to whatever they are told is "the truth" and cannot defend or understand half of what they believe. I had one who kept telling me that I was trying to convert her and to save my Preaching for someone else. Ask them about the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nagamadi Scrolls and they think you were watching a Sci Fi Movie. The best is to tell them that Mary Magdelene was not a Prostitute but one of the Apostles who could totally comprehend what the preachings of Jesus were all about and how fond Jesus was of her. There is a Gospel of Mary Magdelene and a Gospel of Thomas which are very contradictory to the four evangelists who were illiterate fisherman who could neither read or write. Can't do it with Politics either.
I agree. Many people on this forum are rude and troll others as much as the alt-right do.