Me too.

"anti-progressive, (nothing more to learn)" several good thinking phrases but I like this one the best. We do only stop learning when we die that is if we live life to the fullest.

This is a nice perspective. I, sadly, DID spend the first half of my life thinking in absolutes - about morals and facts, anyway. (I gave more leeway to probabilities). Perhaps this was the curse of religion, or perhaps it was just the vanity of youth. I take a more nuanced approach these days.

Chemistry is largely in Continuums -or is it? PH- yes/ Oxidant vs Reductant- yes/ But Poison ? are things labelled poison always going to kill you? You ar right it does depend on your mode of thinking that is inprinted by one means or another.

@Mcflewster Poison certainly works in continuums. The 'lethal dose' term is based on the idea that, a small dose will make a few people ill and perhaps kill a very small number, even a dose large enough to kill some will still leave some unaffected. A very large dose kills everyone, but the term lethal dose is technically used for a dose in the middle of the continuum, which will kill half the people/animals/plants, because that is usually the point where everyone feels some effect.

@Fernapple Interesting You seem well up on poisons.. i note the Horticultural connection. Perhaps all your knowledge is through practical experience literally in the field ?

@Mcflewster No that is pure book learning I am sorry to say, inspired in part by a friend who worked in the military on chemical and nuc containment, who inspired me to read up about it. But having said that, I am not in theory 'organic' or any thing like that, but I just don't find I need to use chemicals much. The odd patch of tough weeds on uncultivated ground may get a splash of Glysophate, that's about it. Slugs, weevils, aphid and whitefly etc. are all delt with using nematodes, or parasitic wasps, just because they are cheap, easy to use and last longer.

People who buy into easy short cut answers, like the organic label, are asking for trouble, its very silly. Pure distilled water is inorganic, got to be dangerous, but botulinum is organic. So which would you rather have in your glass ? The organic movement sold the idea that traditional, (which is what they really meant,) is safe, while something that has been tested in a lab, and run through, in most countries, national safety standards, must be dangerous. " Cause yer known, guys in white coats are always being paid by some conspiritors, like, an' tellin' yer like there ain't no edges on the planet. But fred yer know 'e says 'e found this stuff in a cave you can spray on yer tomatoes, an people bin usin it fer years, 'e says its organic, an calls it white lead, or somethin like."

It is in short, just a sub-set of the anti- science and anti-intellectual movements.

And it has much to answer for, including poisoned soils in vineyards, so toxic they are classified as dangerous waste. (You see copper/heavy metal products, because they are old fashioned, are safe and organic ! ) Until the police catch you, that is. And some appalling animal welfare cases, where animals with perfectly curable ailments, were denied perfectly effective drugs and other cures, because they are not organic. Or even in the worst cases, because you do not use vets at all, if you are organic.

If people want to buy into pseudo-religions like the organic movement, to save themselves the trouble of thinking and enquiring into the true origins of their food. Then like all people who buy into religion, looking for easy lazy answers, they will be fleeced and led round the mulberry bush, and end up acheiving exactly the opposite of what they intended in many cases. And yes I am well aware that there have been many disasters involving, high tec farming and food production, including DDT, nicotinoids, salt build ups from irrigation, over use of antibiotics etc. etc. and that therefore mainstream food production does need to be held up to scrutiny, and that the organic movement especially in its early days did much good, but the time for mindless idealogical crusades is over. (Was in my youth, half a century ago a long time member of the soil association.) But the mainstream media and culture are now well aware of the risks, and the need to ask questions, especially detailed well researched questions.

@Fernapple We have obviously touched on something very important to you . Thanks for the stimulous in this direction

@Mcflewster I nearly forgot what the original subject was, but I guess that in the end it has come full cirle. Because "detailed well researched questions" and "ideaological crusades" are nearly the same as percentages vs. absolutes.

@Fernapple "detailed well researched questions" is the key part of my campaign to encourage science for everyone and that includes well prepared experiments at stimulating new avenues of thought in front of real live religionists. Do you meet in any live group format e.g local group?

@Mcflewster Yes but I was very young only a junior member, then I started work and was only a postally active member.