I think he is proposing the drug combo only for early symptoms, not for those in hospitals. The drugs are already in use for the treatment of malaria, and Lupus I am told by Karuk, so the side effects must be manageable in the early stages. Even if a few percent of patients die from the side-effects, there might be a net saving of lives.

@WilliamFleming Correct, one is taken as a treatment for lupus, not as a prophylactic for covid-19. I'm very hesitant to put any faith in such a use, based on what seems basically apocryphal studies, even from a "Yale epidemiologist". Maybe if he'd gone to Harvard....

@Paul4747 Sounds like you are a Harvard man.

@WilliamFleming I note this in today's Washington Post:

"Meanwhile, a study published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine found that hydroxychloroquine did not prevent healthy people exposed to covid-19 from getting the disease caused by the coronavirus. The study is the first randomized clinical trial that tested the antimalarial drug, which President Trump touted, as a preventive measure."

[washingtonpost.com]

@Paul4747 Maybe if taken together the drugs suppress the symptoms enough for the body’s natural defenses to get the upper hand.

Trump’s opinion is of no interest, and I’m no medico either. Just trying to learn with an open mind.

Study retracted:

[news.yahoo.com]

@WilliamFleming That's not the study I was talking about: [miamiherald.com]

The anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine, which President Donald Trump has touted as a treatment for COVID-19, was found to have no benefits and linked to higher death rates in coronavirus patients, according to a new study.

The study, which was postedTuesday on medrxiv.org, analyzed the outcomes of 368 male Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with COVID-19 nationwide until April 11. The study hasn’t been peer-reviewed and was funded by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia.

Of the patients studied, 97 received hydroxychloroquine, 113 received hydroxychloroquine with the antibiotic drug azithromycin, and 158 didn’t receive any hydroxychloroquine, according to the study.

More than 27% of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine died and 22% treated with both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin died, compared to the 11.4% who died and weren’t treated with those drugs, according to the study.

“An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs,” the authors of the study wrote.

The study also found that hydroxychloroquine didn’t reduce the risk of a COVID-19 patient having to go on a ventilator.

@Paul4747 Okay, but Trumps opinion should not figure in one way or the other. Further testing has been resumed..

@WilliamFleming It really doesn't, except that he's inserted himself into the issue by touting it as a miracle cure at every available opportunity; so he made his opinion part of the issue, up to the point where a top government researcher was reassigned out of his job when he didn't pursue Trump's personal priorities. He's looking for an "easy button" to end a global pandemic. Any halfway educated person knows there is no such thing. It doesn't just disappear like a miracle in time for the convention.

All I did was post an interesting article and I find that I have aroused intense anger. Who cares what Trump’s opinion is?

You re wrong about one thing. That hard-to-spell drug combination is a cheap drug, widely available, and has nothing to do with DT.

I’m sorry to hear that you have Lupus. I wish the best for you.

@WilliamFleming sorry, but you are wrong. Yes, it WAS a cheap drug that was readily available until “Trumps opinion” changed that. Many Lupus patients across the country are being denied the drug, and I am having difficulty getting my prescriptions filled as well. This is reality, not an opinion based on false information.

@Karuk I didn’t make the connection. Sorry

Well, I just learned of their existence today. But you don’t have to take it from them. Click on the other link.

“The American Journal of Epidemiology is the oldest and one of the premier epidemiologic journals devoted to the publication of empirical research findings, opinion pieces, and methodological developments in the field of epidemiologic research.

“It is a peer-reviewed journal aimed at both fellow epidemiologists and those who use epidemiologic data, including public health workers and clinicians.”

@WilliamFleming what He's recommending is to utilize HCQ + AZ in an outpatient setting which basically if someone is asymptomatic or mild. This has not been tested yet. If you read the actual PDF to the bottom...

I conclude that HCQ+AZ and HCQ+doxycycline, preferably with zinc (47) can be this outpatient treatment, at least until we find or add something better, whether that could be remdesivir or something else. It is our obligation not to stand by, just “carefully watching,” as the old and infirm and inner city of us are killed by this disease and our economy is destroyed by it and we have nothing to offer except high-mortality hospital treatment. We have a solution, imperfect, to attempt to deal with the disease. We have to let physicians employing good clinical judgement use it and informed patients choose it. There is a small chance that it may not work. But the urgency demands that we at least start to take that risk and evaluate what happens, and if our situation does not improve we can stop it, but we will know that we did everything that we could instead of sitting by and letting hundreds of thousands die because we did not have the courage to act according to our rational calculations.

If you read that, I would quote it as"throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks"

@Dougl35534 You’re ahead of me if you read that whole pdf file. Yes, it does sound as though the final determination has not been made. Still though there have been promising results. I would not hesitate to take that combination if it meant some chance of staying out of a hospital and off a ventilator.

Specifically, we should not pay any attention to DT either pro or con. His using it is not going to keep me from using it if the occasion arises.

I am not promoting anything here, and I have no interest in DT’s opinion on the matter.

I thought the article was pertinent and of interest, and it references this:

[academic.oup.com];

@WilliamFleming who said or even implied you were? Although the Oxford site clearly says it is an "accepted manuscript" from the author and the Snopes article mentions those studies were flawed and why were they flawed, plus mentions the latest worldwide study which differs in the conclusion. No need to get defensive.

@Mofo1953 Who are you trying to kid? The Snopes article is all about discrediting Trump, and even starts with his picture.

I looked all through that Snopes article and nowhere is the American Journal of Epidemiology article mentioned. That is because it came out only one day before the Snopes article.

The American Journal of Epidemiology is a highly respected professional source. Dr. Risch addresses that worldwide study:

“Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been widely misrepresented in both clinical reports and public media, and outpatient trials results are not expected until September. Early outpatient illness is very different than later hospitalized florid disease and the treatments differ...”

I know that for myself, I would not hesitate to use Dr. Risch’s method if it might keep me out of the hospital and off a ventilator. If you prefer a ventilator that’s your business. Good luck.

@WilliamFleming you need to learn how to read, dude. Snopes starts with the photo of Trump not to discredit him but to comment on the fact that he took the thing to "prevent" the corona virus; which is factually true and there's videos of what he said. There are no preventive medicines for COVID19. Even your shared paper doesn't say so, it mentions it as treatment once you have it. Additionally, your shared paper mentions studies that were misrepresented because the methodology was flawed as the Snopes article clarifies. Hey, you want to kill yourself? See if I care. There is nothing dismissive or derogatory in the Snopes article only factual and represents the latest (up to last week) in widely accepted testing of several countries. But if you want to take cianide or stricnine or whatever you want to put in your body, hey, knock yourself out.

“Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy.”

[academic.oup.com];

I’m not promoting anything here, just passing on interesting information from reliable sources.

@WilliamFleming

@ReadyforaChange Thanks for that video. I just read about the retraction.

I don’t know if a simple apology is enough for causing a delay in such a vital and promising prospective cure.

I am in no position to judge such an article. I am posting it because I found it interesting, and because I thought that a Yale epidemiologist should know his stuff.

[academic.oup.com]

Word

@WilliamFleming yeah treatment regimens are all varied at the moment because there are 10+ different strains right now plus symptoms vary and it can attack other areas of the body. So IF it's in your lungs and IF it's causing the swelling that leads to cascading bronchial failure and IF you have no other autoimmune-affected diseases (such as Lupus, MS, IBD, rheumatory arthritis, diabetes, guillane-barre syndrome, CPD ) and no cancer then you might warrant it. But implying and suggesting its' merit for "wide use" is way overblown and smacks of a secondary motive.

@JeffMesser “Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy.”

I remember reading about this treatment being used in Europe before Trump said anything about it. I even posted an article at that time.

[agnostic.com]

@WilliamFleming well sure. it's a general way to treat the swelling and edema caused as your body fends off many different things. but those are all symptoms and not the cause. you still have this tiny little piece of RNA replicating and exploding.