The Dolezal Jenner Paradox
EDIT: As stated in a recent comment, this post has been edited since it's initial posting. Thanks to spirited debate and discussion, I have learned a few things and realized some of my verbiage was unclear and/or unacceptable. However, I believe the spirit of my original argument is unchanged. My goal is to hone my argument in light of discussion here and hopefully reach more of a consensus with each new jumping off point for discussions.
What is race? What is the essence of “blackness”? Who is the arbiter of such questions? I imagine if you ask 100 people, you’ll get very few definitions that are exactly the same. Some of the answers will invariably include talk of skin tone, oppressive struggles, culture, upbringing, discrimination, lineage, or even DNA. It is likely the fact that the scientific community has, for at least 70 years now, debunked the concept of different races of humans that the answer to the above question is so elusive. I’ve wondered for a while about the natural corollary of the above query, and it involves how the use of “the N word” in the future will be affected as more and more people find love and produce offspring with those that look different than they do. Will we eliminate that ugly word from everyone’s vocabulary as the awful relic it is? Will some still cling to it in an effort to retain ownership and prevent a resurgence of its misuse? Considering the rise in white supremacy and even self-described Nazis in the US and around the globe, that seems a likely possibility. But who gets to decide who can say it? How black is black enough? Over generations, as our complexions meld, will people need to have some sort of evidence of lineage, or whatever the determining factor(s) are that dictate fair use before deciding to be outraged or not? Will these determining factor(s) be universally agreed upon? These are all largely rhetorical questions that merely scratch the surface of how complex and difficult this is and how much more so it will become. Currently if a very white-appearing person starts a sentence defending themselves with a claim about what percentage black they are, it is undoubtedly received as cringe-worthy if not appalling. (They might as well have claimed some of their best friends are black.) Would our reactions change if we learned that the orator was 25% African American? What if they grew up in a largely minority population? What if their half-siblings they grew up with were 100% African American? What if they had all the disadvantages of growing up in lower socio-economic or marginalized area PLUS the discrimination of “not looking black”? Would the culture, upbringing, discrimination, and lineage outweigh the fact that they didn’t appear black? If not, why not? If so, would it still if the individual was only 12.5% African-American? Less? What if they didn’t know the percentage at all because they do not believe lineage defines them? Where is the line? Is it more reasonable to let those that don’t know the first thing about you and your life decide if you meet some arbitrary blackness threshold? Does one’s feeling of identity matter at all?
There is one arena where feeling means everything. Delineating between our notion of races, considering is it nothing more than a man-made social construct devoid of a scientific basis, is incredibly difficult, yet we don't allow for 'feeling' to be a determining factor. For gender, it seems to be the exact opposite. In fact, the only factor at all that blurs the gender lines from their original association with sex is an individual’s feeling about their gender identity. It is feeling alone that has created the 64 gender designations (at the time this was updated) currently in use. And in this realm as well, I wonder, who shall be judge and jury? Have I been missing the outrage over gender and/or sex appropriation? I do tend to ignore the news as much as possible (which is why I am just now in the year 2020 getting around to addressing this) but I managed to hear much outrage over cultural appropriation. In 2015, the world overwhelmingly applauded Caitlyn Jenner for her courage and contribution to the community. Glamour awarded her the Woman of the Year Award. Sure there were some that spit vile and hateful rhetoric, but we are all aware that segment of the population will pretty much shit on anything that isn’t straight and very, very white. For the most part, however, Caitlyn continued to thrive, possibly not despite, but rather, thanks to, her transition. I am utterly confounded by this hypocrisy.
Rachel Dolezal was once a pillar of the black community in Spokane. She rose to become the president of her local chapter of the NAACP. She affected tremendous change and tirelessly worked for equality. She served as chair of the Police Ombudsman Commission aimed at equal treatment for all under the law. Her passion for this work undoubtedly came from her need to protect and mentor her four black adopted siblings. Three of the four have admitted Dolezal’s parents were physically and mentally abusive, being both beaten with whips that left disturbing scars, and “treated as white children with skin conditions”. Additionally, Rachel’s biological son from her marriage to Kevin Moore is black. For years she had ample reason to identify with, and assimilate into, the black community. She was able to provide her younger adopted siblings with knowledge of and identity with their roots, and later with her adopted and biological son she continued that trend. Her passion to protect and teach a disenfranchised minority grew, and with it, how she felt and identified. We can compare her accomplishments for equality for the black community to those of Caitlyn for her community, but what community was that exactly? Certainly not the female community. It was the transgender community she advanced... by virtue of what seems to be appropriation. I mean, to be fair, was there really no genetically female person more deserving of the Woman of the Year award in 2015? Representative Carolyn Maloney from New York sponsored dozens of legislative efforts in 2015 including an equal rights amendment to the constitution guaranteeing equality under the law for women. That really wasn’t more “Woman of the Year” worthy? The argument isn't even really about whether someone was more deserving based solely on merit, or if Caitlyn should or shouldn't be eligible, but rather why there isn't outrage over appropriation like there is for race. It was repeatedly stated at the time of the scandal that there was nothing more quintessentially indicative of white privilege than a white person "choosing to be black”. But I ask, is the same not true of male privilege when a man chose to be a woman? During youth, there were definitely benefits of being male, and none of the struggles of being a woman. The parallels are hard to ignore once they’re pointed out. And when you really compare them line by line, Dolezal should be accepted at least as easily as Caitlyn (if there even needs to be levels other than ‘completely accepted’ ). Dolezal did tremendous work for the culture she appropriated, Caitlyn did work for a group different than the one she appropriated. Race and gender are both man-made social constructs, yet our belief that race is fluid has been around much longer than our belief that gender is fluid and not associated with sex or genetics. It seems if you can accept someone's choice of gender identity, you should have zero trouble accepting someone's race identity.
A quick afterthought: did it dawn on you while reading this to admonish me for “dead-naming” Nkechi Amare Diallo? Probably not.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.What an asshole, that chick either blocked me too, or deleted all of her posts. @admin can you make it so that either others' comments don't delete when the person who started the thread deletes their comment, or preferably, have it just take the person's name off the comment and change it to an anonymous post so the discussion doesn't get derailed?
ChestRockfield
Level 8
June 23, 2020
0
@SeaGreenEyez Thank you for the info.
This is a repost of a reply that was in a thread TMW is blocked from seeing:
@TheMiddleWay A quick question that probably isn't much of a sticking point because I don't imagine either of us know for sure, but if the thing the black community found so objectionable was that she wasn't technically black and thereby couldn't relate to the daily struggle of life as a black person and experiencing racism as they do, what happens when:
A. She has been living as a black woman for YEARS, so successfully that no one knew she wasn't, and likely experienced racism in kind, and racism against her children, and experienced the racism felt by her siblings -or-
B. A black person that appears white who lives the beginning of their life without outsiders knowing they are black. What if they were adopted. What if they didn't even know until later in life when reunited with their parents?
Does A still not get to claim they are black while B does? How much racism does one need to experience and for how long before they're in the club? This is my point, there are so many variables and so many different ways people will judge things, why should only outsiders (who necessarily know way less about you than you do) get to determine if you're black enough but only you get to determine if you're woman enough? What happens if some people think you're black enough and others don't? Do we need to poll everyone? Who's vote counts in this poll?
ChestRockfield
Level 8
June 22, 2020
0
@TheMiddleWay
A. I don't think it's as easy as "she can revert to whiteness". Look at what happened to her when people found out. Imagine if she just decided to revert? She'd have to prove she was white first then still face all the backlash. And it's not like she can just tell the cop that's harassing her, "Excuse me, sir, I'm actually a white woman, so..." And that's assuming her feelings about her race are any less real to her than Caitlyn's feelings about being a woman. As difficult as it would be, couldn't she always just revert to male?
B. I wasn't asking how they would find out they were black, I was asking if their claim to blackness after the first X years of their life living as a white person is any more or less valid than Dolezal's claim to blackness after living the first X years of her life as white, but then living as a black person and suffering racism, and advancing black rights, and combating racial profiling, and becoming the president of the NAACP, and raising black siblings and children, etc. It was rhetorical, and done to point out that whatever conditions one states as the reason what Dolezal did was wrong are very fluid and subjective and contrasting that with how the only person that gets to judge gender identity are individuals themselves.
I will give you that if we can divorce gender/sex and biology/culture we'd all get along much better, but that was mostly my point from the beginning (after the explanation above about who gets to be the arbiter of blackness)... why can people accept Jenner and not Dolezal?
@TheMiddleWay
A. But now she's universally hated and discriminated against. It's clearly worse than whatever "normal" amount of racism she was subjected to. She's be unable to get a job in her field, and has been doing hair to make ends meet. It may not be an option most black people have, but it likely isn't an option any black people want. It's really pretty terrible, she was willing to take on discrimination in order to more adeptly fight for the rights of the disenfranchised, her children, and her siblings, was undoubtedly successful, only to get screwed over even worse by everyone, instead of just "the man". Also, whatever negative impacts transgendered people suffer could also be avoided by reverting, but they are infinitely more accepted than transracial people, so there's less of a need to do so.
B. So wait, since there's no way to prove Caitlyn doesn't feel like (isn't) a woman then everyone should be fully on board with her being a woman, but even though we don't have proof that Dolezal doesn't have African ancestry, it's cool to assume she doesn't and then shit on her for lying. But since race doesn't really exist, why again do outsiders get to determine if you meet whatever arbitrary and subjective criteria they'd like to use to determine if you're "black" enough. Furthermore, why is a personal belief that she's lying even a remotely acceptable determination for whether or not she's deserving of the world's hatred? What if someone claimed they believed Caitlyn was lying about being a woman and shit on her? Some have done it, and the world came to her rescue and collectively bitch slapped them. Hell, you could have actual proof she's lying (which I don't know if anyone actually has), and I still don't see the fundamental difference. People lie about shit all the time, but like being transgendered, it could be what she needed to do to fit in and be safe and comfortable in the skin she identified with. Obviously, telling people from the start she felt black and was going to start living as a black woman wasn't an option. And for many transgendered people, there may be the same sort of lies or lies by omission. Do they all announce every time they meet someone or walk into a bathroom that they are trans, or whatever arbitrary circumstances people think transgendered people should out themselves in? I doubt it.
I'm still looking for the fundamental difference here, and no one has been able to point one out.
@TheMiddleWay
I disagree. She's being discriminated against for being transracial.
Again, I disagree. She's transracial, and needed to lie in order to protect herself from bigots who can open their minds to transgender, but not transracial (or neither). Also, you 'feel' or 'think' she was not black. Do you have her DNA results showing lineage?
So again, if race is just a social construct, why can't someone just be black if they say they're black the same way a person who was genetically male can just be a woman.
@TheMiddleWay
Yeah, it doesn't appear as though we are getting anywhere; I feel like a broken record, too. It seems as though you don't value the argument I made about it being of no consequence if she lied. (Remember, we don't KNOW that she DOESN'T know she actually does have African ancestors, but I still contend it's irrelevant. I could have African ancestors; I honestly don't know. If I found that out, would I suddenly be allowed to call myself black and say 'the N word' with impunity? Lying about it shouldn't matter for several reasons, but one of them should be that it shouldn't even matter where someone's ancestors came from. Hell, if we want to get technical, every single human on the planet shares a common ancestor.)
Transracial, as defined as someone who identifies with a "race" different from the one they were assigned at birth, is no less real to her (and me) than the transgender definition of someone identifying with a "gender" different than they were assigned at birth. Any lies anyone thinks a member of either group told shouldn't matter. So maybe transracial isn't understood or accepted. There was a time when transgendered wasn't understood or accepted. There was a time when homosexuality wasn't understood or accepted. Why do we as a society continue to slog down these paths one painstaking step at a time. Black males finally got the right to vote in 1870, but then women had to fight another fifty years before we recognized they deserved a voice too? We can look back at that and see how absolutely ridiculous it is that we couldn't do it all in one step. Imagine how much better off we'd be if we didn't continue to disenfranchise sections of our population once we already realized we were wrong? So considering we don't have a very clear, concrete reason to separate these things, why wouldn't we take this step together. An example of a clear concrete difference I'm looking for would be when people claimed "You can't let homosexuals get married because the next thing you know, a man will want to marry his toaster." Obviously, anyone who's not a moron could cite at least one very clear reason why marriage between two humans cannot be compared to or even placed on a continuum with marriage between a human and a toaster.
Now I could be wrong. There could be a reason I'm not seeing why these things are and always will be different. But the more I discuss this online and in real life, the less likely it seems I will discover that reason. So until that day comes, I'm stuck believing that people who support Caitlyn and shit on Dolezal are being awfully hypocritical.
@TheMiddleWay
It seems as though our entire impasse is centered around her lying and your belief that it matters. I would like to add one more point. If we didn't ask people if they were "really black" or ancestrally black, she wouldn't have needed to lie about it to protect herself from what happened to her. As I stated before, it shouldn't matter where someone's ancestors came from, so why are we asking in the first place? Is it appropriate to ask Caitlyn if she's really just a cross-dresser or drag queen, especially if she already stated she was a woman or transgendered woman?
@TheMiddleWay
So, I don't know if you're responding to my two comments separately, but you didn't reply to the 'is it appropriate to even ask' part.
Also, you really think a trans person would reap global condemnation these days for lying about their sex? Honestly? I really don't. I think they would say that the circumstances were such that they needed to lie to protect themselves. I mean, unless maybe they were about to have sex with someone they were lying to, what harm are they really doing by lying, especially when there's so many people that aren't very enlightened on this issue. I'm willing to bet people would likely just say, well, he or she shouldn't have lied, but I guess I understand. I think the only thing that you've found to differentiate these circumstances doesn't seem like it would play out equally if the roles were reversed.
I think that's a thought experiment that's good/fair way to test if a certain thing is the cause of a difference. Also, do you honestly think everyone would still be embracing Dolezal if she never claimed she was African American but only claimed she was black? I bet you don't, because you probably know most people wouldn't even make a distinction between culturally and ancestrally black the same way a majority of people used to [still] fail to make a distinction between gender and sex. Hell, I think I'm pretty progressive, and I wasn't even using clear language when this conversation started. The average Joe does though? Nah. Not buying it. They would all hate her just the same. That's two avenues to evaluate if her lie is actually the difference, and I don't think either holds water.
It's also very curious to me that you think the future has me realizing I'm wrong. Our world is continually getting more progressive and more homogenous. It seems way more likely to me that people will embrace more "choices" in the future. There was probably a time when most people did not think transgendered people would be widely accepted, let alone applauded, celebrated, and draped across the covers of hugely popular magazines like People, US, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair.
if a person was born male and starts calling themselves female, I'm pretty sure other females would take exception
I just don't see it. I think you're in a small minority of people if you'd be offended and object to one but not the other. Like, if Sports Illustrated ran a headline about Caitlyn being the first woman to win a gold medal in the men's Olympics, you think people wouldn't have a problem with that, but if they said the first female to win a gold medal in the men's Olympics they would? I think these distinctions you are relying on to justify hating on Dolezal but praising Jenner are tenuous at best and disingenuous at worst.
But yeah, there is still an air of "appropriation" that would have to be addressed.
Of course we can't know, but it sounds like you agree she'd probably be getting shit on still instead of applauded and given magazine covers as a champion, pioneer, or hero.
is a bit what the JK Rowling row is all about: she is against tranwomen appropriating female identity
And what happened? She faced a huge backlash. I know I can't prove it to you, but all signs point to be being right about the lie not being the reason for the difference in treatment for these situations.
I can't predict that you'll see things my way but I'm hoping that you will.
As is, I would guess there's practically a zero percent chance of that. Until I see a reason for the difference that holds up under scrutiny, I don't imagine there's any way my brain will make a determination that they are different. Even though we probably disagree on more stuff than we agree on, I'm honestly pretty surprised that you're still clinging to the lie as the reason. Please, just for a second, close your eyes and try to think about a white person being up front and honest and going on the news and saying they were culturally black and they were going to darken their skin and live as a black person from now on. If you see that going very poorly for them, especially considering all the "black face" controversy lately, then you should be able to admit you're most likely wrong that the reason Dolezal and Jenner's situations are different is because Dolezal lied.
I just noticed that 4 times I used the word ' white ' it was deleted. Is that super weird? I was going to edit and fix, but I'm curious why this happened.
ChestRockfield
Level 8
June 22, 2020
0
No, you didn't change my opinion much, as I largely agree already. Nicely said.
AmyTheBruce
Level 7
June 22, 2020
0
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