I understand protesting is part of democracy. However, burning down buildings and destroying statues is illegal. Should protesters be allowed to tear down statues (which don't belong to them) and blocking highways be permitted?
Is white privilege a real thing?
What can we do ti fix the racial problems? Does the federal Government need to pay all black people money for reparation? How much? $100,000 per person? Would that be enough? American taxpayers are all colors of people. What is it that the rioters want besides freedom from racist police?
Blocking highways: no.
Tearing down statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and other racist traitors: yes.
Our heritage, good-bad-right-wrong... It is still our heritage. Those soldiers fought for what they believed in. I had kin that died in the Civil War. To disgrace their names is a disgrace to me. Where do people get the idea to tear down George Washington, Abe Lincoln? Christopher Columbus? Reely??
@Storm1752 Who decides what was good in our history and what was bad? Do we have to erase everything that more than 2 years old? There have been slaves for millennia in most countries in the world. While the holocaust was one of the worst deeds in the history of the world (understatement) the worst happening was the killing of over 400,000 indigenous natives living in North and South America. These people were all but wiped out by the English, Spanish, and French.
I think the desire to tear down statues is mostly a symptom of people being tired of police brutality, unequal distribution of wealth, and the realization that young people will have to work for a living.
@Storm1752 Many protesters and rioters are young white citizens. Protesting police racism and brutality might be in order. However, Rioting, burning, and killing should never be allowed, of course.
I think many young people have realized that they will have to work and earn a living, and they are having trouble facing it. Add the Covid-19 to the mix of discomfort and we have a powder keg.
Recently, I attended what was supposed to be a BLM protest and the tearing down of a statue in my state. I got there early. Soon, 25 civilians showed-up toting guns. The protesters never appeared that day. I wonder what would have happened if some protesters showed-up and even a few had guns. That could have been a bad scene for our community, state, and nation.
Contributing to this mess is social media and the news. Of course, social media improves the nation's and the world's communication. However, we are communicating with hate as well as love.
@Storm1752 With all due respect, the confederates were fighting for much more than slavery. Slavery is supported by the Bible. Most southerners were Christians (as is still the case).
It amazes me that millions of black people are very strong Christians despite the Bible being pro-slavery. Jesus is supposed to have said, "do not beat your slaves until you break their teeth."
Modern Christians don't go by that now, they will claim that Jesus lived in a different time, or that the scripture is anecdotal. Most bad parts of the Bible are claimed by modern Christians to be anecdotal.
@Grecio I just think slavery was and is wrong; if you don't think so, fine. The Civil War WAS about slavery. Of course there were ancillary issues, but they could have and probably would have been settled peacefully. The "heritage" of slavery is a disgrace, in my opinion. The fact many men died to uphold it means nothing to me. They died for an unjust cause. This is my opinion. Now please take it as such. Read the 'Cornerstone Speech' by Confederate Vice President Stephens delivered in 1861 in Savannah, Georgia if you don't believe slavery was based on the mistaken notion blacks are subhuman, inferior, and therefore are deserving of subjugation. ARE they inferior? Even if you think so (do you?) they are STILL human being and not cattle.
Anyway, lots of Germans died believing in and fighting for the Nazi cause...it's weird you brought that up, since it hardly bolsters your point. I'm sure you don't believe they died heroic deaths in defense of a noble cause!
I can't believe I'm feeling forced to state such obvious truths, to someone who should know better.
So is killing innocent people. It should have not come to this. But they refused to uphold the law and the statues are not alive.
No, the decision belongs to those who own the statue. Those who take illegal actions must be prosecuted if laws are to mean anything.
If taking the law into ones own hands is justified then lynchings are justified.
when someone, some organization, or city etc. owns a statue on display in a public place that represents a memorial to racism or some other evil, it should come down or be moved to another more appropriate venue. if that owner refuses to recognize its offensive nature and initiate its immediate removal i argue that they've relinquished thier responsibilities to the public space and fellow citizenry. i say tear it down. at worst those responible should be given no more than a slap on the wrist.
on the other hand, lynching is murder.
could be that's the only time folks pay attention and things get done or changed. unfortunate.
I wonder if we can have enough discussion to solve the racial problems? How long ago were the Furgeson riots? We might think that after that there would be a lot of dialogs to see that things like that don't happen again. However, here we are years later, worse off than before. I wonder if American citizens don't like discussing racial problems? If we discuss the problems, then we admit that there is a problem, and somebody sitting at the table is a racist. Nobody knows how to solve the racial problems and science doesn't seem to be able to help at this point.
@Grecio it's not a science thing very much. I think mostly white folks need to get educated. then perhaps dialogue could be of some use. until white folks get some education about it it's just going to lead to more frustration for white folks and black folks. I listened to this yesterday on NPR. made a lot of sense. here's an article about it with the recording of the show in it. "here and now" is the name of the npr show. [amp.wbur.org]
@hankster I watched the video and it makes a lot of sense. The problem, it seems, is that white people living in 2020 have to admit that they have held blacks down when all blacks attend the same schools, have been given special treatment, and extra money and still there is no equalization of achievement. I would have to ask, is there a different culture, especially in the south (USA) where a black has difficulty achieving in modern society?
@Grecio it's hard to say that there hasn't been improvements in achievement. that's an assumption. if desegregation had never happened it could be worse. it's not a recent problem. thinking that racial problems are going to be solved within one generationor two or three is folly. thinking that racial problems is a southern matter is folly. that kind of thinking just perpetuates the stereotypes. it's going to take time. the best we can hope for in our lifetimes is that would try to get it on the right track as a country. we might could see some improvements. but I'm skeptical true equality will be something we will see.
@Grecio if a citizen cares enough, they could learn. they could at least try. if they're not too stuck, if their heart and mind is still flexible enough to absorb new information and question thier assumptions. they've had bias drilled into them by the culture of privelidge or even underprivilege depending on what side of the tracks you grew up on so to speak. it's an enormously complex the difficult issue. I'm no expert but I do try to pay attention.
Yes, when we have a whole race, several races really, is oppressed we need a revolution. It's only property and people are more important. The statues depict oppressors, they never should have existed in the first place.
And now they want to take down Mt. Rushmore too.
@gemini1947 good. mt. rushmore is a disgrace.
@hankster They should turn it into Geronimo and Chief Joseph..."I will fight no more forever"
Sitting Bull, Osceola, or Ouray.
@gemini1947 I'm good with whatever the Native Americans want to do with it.
@hankster Yeah... Whos country was it before Columbus "discovered" it?
@gemini1947 I don't know that anyone claimed ownership. seems like it was much more respected though.
@hankster If the Native Americans would have told the "discoverers" to go back where they came from, like so many folks now are telling others, It would be a whole different world today. Maybe they should do away with Thanksgiving too.
@gemini1947 let's not get carried away. Thanksgiving is the best eating day of the year.
@hankster Yeah, we had better not go there. I am making burritos for supper.
@gemini1947 [crazyhorsememorial.org]
@gemini1947 Yea, look what happened to the American Indian, Boy, did they have a terrible immigration policy.
@gemini1947 I think the invention of guns and gunpowder had an influence. A lot of things determine our history. Things like accidents, dictators, history, science, and evolution. We think we can control all of that, but we can't. Science and religion cannot protect us from being a planet flying into oblivion with bacteria and viruses living on it. If we don't destroy ourselves, nature will. Perhaps that is the course of our universe. Our planet is not special, it is just like most other planets. We think we are special because there is life on our planet. But is life so special? Stephen Hawkins said people are basically "pond scum". He might be right.
@Grecio I think that's a ridiculous viewpoint. perhaps Our Heritage can be that "we changed". perhaps Our Heritage could be that "we apologized". new history has to be made don't it? that history will be in the books, but there's no reason except false Pride in the mistakes we made, to keep hanging on to it.
@Grecio because he's a fascist.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
he wants to portray American history as he sees fit regardless of the facts. Facts might support an opposing point of view. he is intolerant of that.