74m people either disliked Biden enough and/or liked Trump enough to vote Trump. That is additionally frightening.

A month or two ago on this forum, we were all discussing a few things, either leading up to or post-election, and getting into understanding Trump's tendencies he was showing not to respect the law he is sworn to protect as part of the salary he is drawing, not only as a general matter but in particular as to the election. Some folks were more concerned than others, and I remember one person being pretty dismissive of the concern that it would amount to anything. But that wasn't the point! It would have been closer to the point to understand that, if an attempted coup can happen at all (and it is happening), and (worse) if it could be tolerated or even encouraged by people who think of themselves as allegedly patriotic, then we as a country are in really deep trouble.

@kmaz My best friend from HS and I have been arguing with a buddy I play cards with (Brian) for years about this very thing. Below is a text I sent in our group chat this morning that details how that's been going. He holds the same dismissive view that unless Trump is successful, it's nothing to worry about thinking our democracy is this amazing, bullet-proof masterpiece that can never fall.

So Brian sent me this and I thought it was group chat material.

"Oh
my
god

I just realized something.
Everybody fully expects tomorrow to be the end of 2020.

I'm calling it now, 2020 is going to somehow force a 13th month into existence just so we have to endure one more month of this shit."

Seems he still thinks what we're warning about is only true if Trump illegally [and only illegally] remains in power. (Would declaring martial law and staying in office in response to tons of protests and car bombings even be considered illegal in Brian's book??)

Please read the articles linked below to maybe get a better understanding of what our fears have been. He's not just an idiot who failed to remain in power, just like everyone else who would dare try, because our constitution is so star spangled awesome. He has permanently damaged this country and the fabric of our democracy, and just because he was too stupid/inept to continue to follow the 'Become a dictator' playbook to success doesn't mean he hasn't made it much easier for someone with the proper intelligence and skills to follow along and do it successfully.

[news.yahoo.com]?

[google.com]

[theatlantic.com]

@JeffMurray

I've been surprised not to hear more discussion of iheartcommunications (used to be clearchannel) and the pseudo-freedom-defending voices to which they are providing their radio platform. When I hear friends and acquaintances that say things that make my eyes roll, one of my thoughts is that I don't know in many cases, but I am guessing it's buttressed and reinforced in many cases by a diet of toxic whatever feeding into their ears, as they ride in their vehicles.

[en.wikipedia.org]
[iheartmedia.com]

While under the 1st amendment there can be no government move to silence those voices (nor should there be), I would like to see some private sector action, over the next year or two, to address this:

a) there are a few billionaires out there who have shown they are willing to spend big bucks to try to save the country from its present path. iHeartMedia does not have a massive market cap (under USD $1bn), and an investment of only 10 or 20% of the company might buy some influence, such as to platform capable and entertaining and more constructive voices in opposition to the Becks, Limbaughs, Hannitys, Levins and Savages.

b) I had thought some of these folks were being opposed by some very effective boycott campaigns, but that seems to have subsided. I'm not sure these are a great idea, but it could be revisited I guess.

@kmaz There's a relatively new and potentially never-ending and ever-expanding impediment to the solution you hope for, and that's that many people do not believe in facts or truth any longer. There are notions of your logic or your facts, "alternative" facts, and claims of fake news that are considered completely legitimate by huge swaths of the population. A voice could be out there speaking the truest most logical words ever, and it would likely prove completely ineffective on nearly half of the population. Because of this fact, I cannot conclude anything other than that we've found ourselves in an unsolvable, problematic situation that can only end in civil war, authoritarian rule, or both.

Maybe you're right. I hadn't thought about it, but it doesn't seem as important to me as his obvious success (along with his team and some of the Republican legislators and thought-leaders such as some of the conservative radio show hosts) in working too many American voters into some level of a state of outrage, convincing them that Trump's version of voter "fraud" is at stake, pretending to give a damn about a voting system that Trump and many other Republicans work tirelessly to wreck, and generally manufacturing a conflict in the US at a time when we have many other difficult challenges.

Yes, there are actually some legitimate reasons that many conservatives and Republicans can find and may want to express that they would be massively unhappy with how liberals and Democrats approach things, but the idea that is being promulgated by Trump et. al. that these issues are so deep as to justify just about anything is such nonsense. Such nonsense can only work on people who aren't thinking that deeply in my view.

Maybe it's true that we can relax and expect cooler heads to prevail in congress so that the immediate attempt to take over and end the rule of law will fail. I think it's possible that in addition to wanting to take over, Mr. Trump (and such supporters of his such as Rush Limbaugh) have an additional goal here that is somewhat independent of the success or failure of that takeover attempt, which is to increase the degree to which US citizens are in conflict with each other.

If the coup fails, he will resign and have Pence pardon him just in time before Biden is inaugurated.