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In the US:

Here is how some of the Republicans can redeem themselves a little bit, in my eyes, leading into the 2022 and 2024 election cycles:

Introduce and pass, as soon as possible, thoughtful bipartisan legislation which genuinely seeks to protect and improve the US voting system. This means:

  1. guarding against pervasive voter suppression tactics including:
    a) gerrymandering
    b) reduced poll access
    c) removal from voter registration lists for anything other than clearly-justified reasons
    d) etc.

  2. guarding against foreign interference in US elections which is reasonably defined as improper.

  3. guarding against any actual concerns of computer tampering (though it sounds like progress has already been made)

  4. guarding against any actual honest-to-goodness voter fraud (such as if undocumented citizens register and vote)

In crafting this legislation, consult previous legislative experts and 3rd party NGOs such as here:

[electoralintegrityproject.com]

In crafting the legislation, reject any involvement of any parties (legislators, lobbyists, NGOs, whoever) who are only seeking involvement in order to twist the legislation toward the goal of further anti-election-system nonsense.

Get this done, and be part of it, and it would improve the likelihood that I, as an independent, could vote for you in the 2022 and 2024 elections.

kmaz 7 Jan 1
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1

I did post this and will add it here. We need at least two parties for our system to work. Three would be even better.
Saw this and agree. As a base we need two competing parties to provide a sense of balance. The present situation has failed and needs adjusting. No stand-alone party can be trusted to always do the right thing. Funny how tRump always uses ”America” to mean himself.

[yahoo.com]

Around 2008-2016 I used to post that it would be helpful, in my view, if we draw up a list of Republicans who would be good to draft as candidates for 2016. Part of what I had in mind was that if we did not do this, it would somewhat increase the already very high likelihood that a person of some level of monstrosity would be nominated by the Republicans, once again leaving many of us with little choice but to vote Dem. Even if it would do little good on that front, the main thing I had in mind was to keep focus on defining what I thought would be good. Too much political and government philosophy discussion is reactive in my view, and too little actually just gets out there and defines with ingenuous thinking what would be good to see.

A moderate Republican that I thought would be good, at the time, to draft into candidacy for President was then-Senator from Maine Olympia Snowe.

I guess I will here have to belatedly add to the list Mr. Romney. I must admit, seeing Romney now show some backbone against the worst of what Trump has to offer, and seeing him show some principles in voting for Impeachment, I do have some regrets about voting against him, though I'm still not entirely certain, personally. Anyway, I digress, I think some other place might be better to discuss the nuances of what we each vote for.

The over-arching principle here that I want to bring home is that I think it's good to get out there and define candidates and principles one would like to see in action, in part because I think it can take some of our stale conversations and give them some legitimate new life and, it contributes at least a modicum of putting-the-rudder-in-the-water sanity to what is in some ways, on many fronts, a ruined collective public discourse (for want of a better way to put it).

If there are any entrepreneurs out there who have and enjoy some web skills, and are on the lookout for ideas, I've been wondering if there might be some potential in starting a web page, or sub-page, to do some sort of 2024 candidate watch-list. If smartly-supported and developed, and if evolved as seems needed by motivated owners, the page could have some legs in terms of getting hits and playing a role in the discussion. As to monetizing, that is always a hard part for me, I'm not very savvy with that part, but I'm throwing the idea out there to whomever wants it. Probably in some ways it could more easily be done though by one of the existing fairly well-run web pages, such as ontheissues.org, but I haven't seen it exactly, and I think success or failure of the page in being of use to folks would be very much independent on an individual thinker or two in making smart evolution discussions in how it's put forth.

@kmaz Sorry, my days as a republican are long over. I did vote for Reagan but now see Carter was a much more honest candidate.

@JackPedigo

I haven't voted for a Republican for President since the 80s either.

I think you and some others may understand that it is (relatively) easy for some of us to fall into saying negative things about this or that politician, but it is harder (and arguably more valuable) to define what we'd like to see.

@kmaz What I'd like to see, for politicians to follow the Johnson amendment and tax religious groups when they get out of line.
For politicians to take the dire environmental situation seriously especially the issue of overpopulation.
For politicians to wake up to all the loopholes in the constitution and pass regulations to keep what has been happening the last 4 years from happening again including perhaps helping to create a third centrist party.

0

folks, sometimes I find it (extremely) useful to write out what I think I'd like to see, rather than what I want to complain about, or what I think is likely to happen. It can also help me to guard against facile dismissal and demonization of all people, en masse, in an entire party.

For example, in the past I have found it useful to shout out a candidate or two I'd like to see drafted to be the next Republican candidate. They are unlikely, but it can lead to thinking about, and discussion about, those qualities that I'd like to see.

In the last few days finally I've seen or heard a story here or there about Republicans dissenting with the disgusting attempt to overthrow the election. In particular what bothers me about this attempt to overthrow is that it comes from elected officials and others who have made a mockery of one of the things I care about the most (fighting for voting system integrity). So, I decided to turn the issue around and lay out what I'd like to see. It also allows me to bullet point one or more things that are arguably wrong (or at least in need of monitoring) with our voting system, rather than allow these things to continue to be obscured by the ridiculous snipe hunt the Republicans are orchestrating shouting out "Vote Fraud" without having any basis.

So, yeah, I'm fine with what I've laid out. I don't expect any Republican to take me up on it, but it helps me to keep perspective, as an independent, if I write out my hopes, and I do think here and there, a few Republicans are left who are (somewhat) thoughtful and will take some constructive ideas into the next election cycle with them.

It is not easy for a Republican to put themself in Trump's crosshairs. He is clearly an absolutely vicious human being and probably a blackmailer of some sort. He appears to be the king of ad homenim argumentation. It's relatively easy for us to sit here and criticize a politician, but it appears to be quite difficult in some cases to stand up to Trump. When I do see it happen, I appreciate it. I also question, if not for a few instances of standing up heroically against Trump's disgusting pressure tactics, if the election would have been won. I'm not sure if I'm right, but I also do think that the actions of such people as are in the Lincoln Project were of some importance in the victory. If we take a hard look at their own past, we may cringe, but I am of the view that (given the close call we have just had) our country has shown itself to be on the verge of death and so that makes me desperate enough at this point for better candidates and actions once they reach office that I am willing to be civil and in some cases appreciative toward folks against whom I might otherwise hold a grudge.

Also, although I have now voted Democrat in the last 6 Presidential Elections, I like to keep in mind that many of these votes have to one degree or another a vote against the Republican rather than an enthusiastic endorsement of the Democrat. This can all get confusing and so again: laying out what I'd like to see helps me to keep in mind my own principles and just say basically: here's what I'd like to vote for, if someone out there wants to go in that direction, I'll consider voting for you. Lately, it's been closer to the democrats, but someday I assume some of the Republicans (or a new party if the Republican party is irretrievably damaged) will start to get closer to what I want.

kmaz Level 7 Jan 1, 2021
0

And do you think that's likely to happen, given that Republicans have benefited most in the last 60 years from gerrymandering and voter suppression? The only time they talk about voting "reform", it's a codeword for more restrictions on any groups that aren't traditionally Republican voters.

1

The Republicans can't win a fair contest, so this would guarantee their demise. Our best hope is that the Democrats push election reform while it is to their advantage. I wouldn't expect too much though, any real reform would threaten the corporations ability to choose who runs.

1

No. They have shown their true colors. Time to take out the rest of the trash in 2022.

2

Dream on. These are repuglican standard operating procedure, they won't give them up.

2

Are you kidding? Republicans are the party of sedition and treason. Don't expect anything positive from those shitstains.

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