I agree that funerals are for the living. My mother died of covid last year less than a year after my (estranged) sister died unexpectedly. We yielded to my sister's step-son to make her funeral arrangements-but he never did, thus when my mother died, I treated her service as if it was for both her and my sister, and that helped. I am an atheist to the core (as are most of the members of my immediate family) but what gave us the most comfort was to meet my mother's final wishes as close to what she had expressed as we could, which meant, in part, having a minister lead the service. It is funny that having a ceremony like that really does help one move forward. The grief I felt for both women was prolonged way too much because of the delay in holding the service. In my mother's case it was 16 months after her death. In my sister's case it was 26 months. I needed that final good bye to move past the grief.

Yes, I have read that too that Sagan converted at the last minute. Converted meant accepted Jesus, none other.

Well, let's face it: truth and facts aren't exactly many religious people's strong suit.

And you have to wonder, if they are so sure that this place is so amazing, why are they so hesitant to go there?

I have seen atheists who are in name only and have seen them converting in marriage, love and what they called enlightenment. I have watched atheists here who don't believe in God but they follow all other Christian traditions like Christmas tree, naming children after Biblical names, holiday lights, gift giving etc. To me they are not freethinkers. You cannot be a designer atheist who has one foot in the religious world.

@St-Sinner agnostics are more likely to waver than atheists, in my experience. After all , if your position is ' I don't know' it's easier to change your mind.

Agreed

@St-Sinner many of those traditions are rooted in pagan rituals and family traditions and have little to do with the religious aspect. Just as Labor Day and Presidents Day have little to do with either for most people. I myself love Thanksgiving Day, not because I am thankful to some invisible control freak. I enjoy being thankful to the joys of family get together, my health and the interesting life I have had. Nothing to do with god or religion, but of family and friends. I would hate to have my lack of religion affect my joy of relationships. If I did, I would be no better than those religious groups who shun non believers, or LGBT family members because of their beliefs. I would hate to be associated with them in any way.

@Barnie2years

The people I know celebrate it as Christmas, not as a pagan holiday. They were not brought up as pagans, the majority does not even know where the roots are. They are doing it because the Christian traditions are deep rooted in the minds. If you cannot get out of them, you are not a freethinker. We can defend and justify all we want but walking away is walking away. You cannot be a "designer atheist".

If you are celebrating Christmas, you are a half-atheist to me and certainly not a freethinker. We can justify and feel good about what we are doing but Christmas is about Jesus for 2,000 years. I haven't seen anyone celebrating Christmas other than Christians.

Losing friends and relationships? Try to have an atheist function, invite your religious friends and see if they show up to not lose you.

@St-Sinner I guess it’s a good thing your opinion means nothing to me then! But thanks for showing that you are the reason I took a long time to call myself an Atheist: you are as ragging mad at Christians as the worst of them are towards you! Lucky, as is evident on this site, Atheists come in many denominations and don’t require hating those who don’t think like they do to support their non belief.

@Barnie2years

Don't bother commenting. Your ignorance is annoying, first it was about Bernie, now it is stupidity. Don't show off any more. I cannot even forgive because you not 10 years old.

Exactly. That wouldn't make you a loving father by any stretch of the imagination

Oh, but if you arranged for your Favorite child to be tortured and killed so the rest of your kids could bypass your punishment IF the rest of your kids bow and scrape to your favorite.

Then you should have All your kids taken away and be locked up in the loony bin.

@RussRAB

That too tortured, dragged through the streets by a mere petty mortal called Marcus Pontius Pilatus. I like strong leaders.

@St-Sinner Clever parody there. Who said he liked people who were not prisoners of war.

@yvilletom

Not borrowed his line. It is mine.

I agree

Very well put and myfeelings as well…

I have no one, so I don't even think about. They can do what they will. It doesn't matter.

Mine is prepaid cremation with pretty much the same general directions. Only I have biodegradable urns with soil and a seed to plant which may grow a Maple tree if nothing eats it!

I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes, that is the bitch of it. The fairy tale story would be lovely, which is why it was created in the first place!

I read that Steve Jobs prepared for death, refused morphine and wanted to experience the last breath. When it came, he said... "Oh wow, Oh wow.. here it comes".

@St-Sinner Cool. When my time comes, I want do what Aldous Huxley did and time it just right and drop about 10 hits of acid a few hours beforehand. I'll be tripping like a motherf--ker!

@Storm1752

"When cancer brought him to his death bed, he asked his wife to inject him with “LSD, 100 µg, intramuscular.” He died later that day."

He was probably at home and he had his wife give the acid. I am not sure if it is legal. Also he did not die immediately, he died later in the day. So if he was not under morphine, it must be painful. Correct me if I am wrong.

@St-Sinner I just read his wife's account, and to the contrary, the doctors said it was the most peaceful death, under the circumstances and given his condition, they'd ever seen.

I don't know... funerals are for the living. The dead may have had certain expectations, but they won't even know what happens.

It really is!!