Seems to me the idea of forgiving the sinner only gives the sinner license to do more evil because of knowing s/he will be forgiven. For many, who don't love themselves, fearing the disappointment of those they love might keep them from doing something destructive, not all but some, but if they know they will be forgiven and loved unconditionally, regardless of their actions, I'm not sure there is much of a deterrent.

I do feel we need to forgive those who don't know better, or have reasons we have yet to understand for their hurtful behavior, and especially once they are also dead, just to be able to put it behind us and move forward without the negative feelings. Case by case basis I'd say.

Upon my dad's death, I felt I needed to forgive him, so that I could get on with my life more productively. He didn't kill anyone though, just scarred us emotionally for life.

I think there is value in not forgiving someone who intentionally takes a loved one's life. I'm not sure I could forgive myself, for forgiving a person who murdered a loved one. To me, that seems disloyal to the loved one who is gone, but I hear people say that all the time. Thankfully I've never been in that position, so I can't speak to the reality of it, and I hope I never do.

It's a puzzlement and something for each person to decide on their own, without being led into forgiving by instruction from the church. Religion seems to often be in the business of creating the cycle of sin and redemption, to keep itself alive.

Some things can't be forgiven - though a heartfelt apology and an understanding of a person's state of mind at the time can go a long way toward getting there.

My heart goes out to you for having to endure the loss of your grandson to a murderer. I don't know the details, but no matter how it happened, it simply shouldn't have, yet you and your family are left to deal with the grief, while the murderer might be hoping or expecting the warmth and love of forgiveness. Something is wrong with that.

Religion sets impossibly high standards for forgiveness, as it does for sexual behaviour, and everything else. Because that way it knows that people are bound to fail, or at the very least struggle, so that they too will need the church for help and forgiveness, and then put their spare money in the box, rather than give it to an honest charity, who will really spend it on the poor and sick.

Religion wants you to be a victim. It indoctrinates people into being victimized and not hold accountable those who have harmed and wronged them. So the guilty go free, this has been normalized in our society because of religion.