Who turns away people for treatment?

@puff It's call TRIAGE

@FearlessFly well who staffs triage? Hospital billing companies, insurance companies or people in the medical profession?

@puff . . . all of the above

Or, have a universal health system like most countries.

Thank you for responding to the actual post. It is a complex question. Re seatbelts I rolled my car down a ravine and went through the window on the first roll. According to the ambulance guy I would be dead if I had a seat belt on. Mind you if I wasn't so pissed would have had a seat belt on but not crashed. Life is strange but undoubtable seatbelts have saved lives and a good law.
The guy who invented the 3 point seatbelt never aimed to profit, making the patent free for all to use. Pity the same attitude has not been displayed with covid.

@puff . . . ironic
. . . are you aware that YOU didn't respond to HIS comment ?
(taking responsibility for NOT wearing a seat belt).

@FearlessFly "It is a complex question" I responded in agreement with his statement
"But, at some point people should be responsible for their own actions and the harm they inflict upon themselves."
Where is that point? As I stated in post, a dangerous precedent and we shouldn't go there.
Regarding corporate liability, I just put out there Why should they get out of being liable but people don't?

This is true, but is also a major argument why uptake of the medicine should be voluntary. Points like this need to be highlighted in any debate about charges for medical services

@puff If we had been allowed to do Obama Care with a Public Option then it would have been so. That wasn't allowed, however, so they can pay.

Why? Just investigating pro's and con's with assigning fault with hospital patients, trying to find meaning/ justification for proposed changes some have suggested. A subject that requires debate and reasoning for society as a whole.

@puff It's about a political news point so it belongs in News And Links or Political.

@Matias Very well then, let’s explore it. While I find the term “unconditional solidarity” disturbingly absolutist, refusing to take the steps to protect oneself against a disease with such a high R naught value is an action that could easily impact many others besides oneself. The desire to NOT be responsible for the transmission of a potentially fatal disease to other perhaps more vulnerable individuals alone should be reason enough to continue to wear a mask in public and get vaccinated.

A further impact of not being vaccinated is the potential for hospitalization, thereby overwhelming an already vulnerable healthcare system, and leading to additional deaths due to lack of capacity. My mother who lives in Sacramento suffered a pulmonary embolism last year and required a ventilator to survive. Fortunately, due to mask mandates and social distancing, she received the necessary care to pull through and is doing well today. Later, after the vaccines became available, my uncle refused to be vaccinated became infected with Covid and died earlier this month in the emergency room of a hospital in Vancouver, Washington, with its ICUs filled to capacity and no remaining ventilators. Had my mother, who is vaccinated, lived in Vancouver, she very likely would not have survived!

John Donne observed that no man is an island, and this observation could not be more relevant when dealing with an epidemic.

@Matias Agreed. Just as I would not want to be subject to any monarchy, neither would I want to be arrested, strapped down and forceably injected. But that’s not what we’re talking about now, are we? Full participation in the public space is not a right, but a privilege. A privilege that only comes with certain responsibilities and duties of care to others.

I attended a symphony concert recently in a hall where every attendee had to show proof of vaccination, and we all wore masks, as did the symphony itself, except for the winds of course! Davies Symphony Hall in San Francisco was sold out, as Michael Tilson Thomas is a favorite here. This privilege to hear a symphony performance should not be given to all, but only to those who have taken precautions, not only for themselves, but for the sake of others. And this privilege applies to any workplace, pub, restaurant, public gathering, public transportation, shopping place, or any situation where human interaction is inevitable.

I’m not against people who choose not to be vaccinated, however I’m against people who choose not to be vaccinated leaving their domicile and bumping into me at the grocery store or sitting next to me on the plane. With almost 1,000,000 Americans having lost their lives to Covid, their behavior at this point in refusing to be vaccinated, doffing their masks and demanding equal treatment is selfish at best and criminal at worst.

@Matias A liberal, yes, but in the classical sense of the word.
“The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others."
John Stuart Mill

Here’s a few statistics from this side of the pond, as compiled by the State of Washington Department of Health:
Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are
• 2 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
• 5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year- olds.
Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are
• 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year- olds.
Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
[doh.wa.gov]

The Steele dossier has been thoroughly discredited, paid for by the democratic party
Honestly, any American who whinges about electoral interference should look at your history in Sth America, Asia, Africa and Europe. Ukraine atm and btw, how's your el Presidenti, marketed by the US, going in Venezuela?
You will be one of the idiots cheering when they drag HRC back out.

@puff Russian interference in the 2016 election is well established, comrade.

[pbs.org]

@LovinLarge Still crapping on about Trump after 6 years. Get over it.

@puff Every time I prove you wrong, you quickly change course to try to cover your error. Very Trumpian of you, antivaxxer.

@LovinLarge Don't even bother. Every Republican on the planet is a steaming pile of shit.

@barjoe He says he's from Australia but cites Russian government media. His profile does not identify him as an agnostic or atheist. Gotta wonder why he's even here.

@puff hey dipshit... The steele dossier was initially started by a republican operative.. When trump got the gop nod it was given to the clinton campaign... Quit spreading bullshit!!

@Redneckliberal Hey dipshit, wrong

[en.wikipedia.org]

"The dossier, leaked by BuzzFeed News in January 2017[4] without its author's permission,[5][6][7][8][9] is an unfinished 35-page compilation of raw intelligence[10][11] based on information from anonymous sources known to the author, counterintelligence specialist[12] Christopher Steele.[13] Steele, a former head of the Russia Desk for British intelligence (MI6), was writing the report for the private investigative firm Fusion GPS, who were paid by Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC)."

@puff was initiated by republicans

No-one is vaccinated. Some of us have taken pre-emptive medicines though. Besides which, any opinion on what I posted?

@puff No one is vaccinated? What the hell does that mean?

@p-nullifidian A vaccine for covid--19 is yet to be developed. One that provides meaningful immunity and is long lasting. Look at Australia ffs. How long are we going to class infections as breakthrough infections and deny that transmission is not being stopped? Close to 90% of population inoculated which should provide a herd immunity.........if we had a vaccine.
A vaccine should enable you to drop other control methods for this virus. But the vaccinated still are required to social distance, wear masks etc In other words when vaccinated you still carry on as if you are not vaccinated because you can still transmit.
If all vaccines were as good as the covid-19 vaccines, we would still have polio, smallpox etc. A bit like we still have influenza, another non-vaccine but instead, an effective pre-emptive medicine that will only protect you..

@puff Opinion? I'm fully vaccinated. People who refuse the vaccine? I don't give two shits about any of them, except for the virus they spread.

@barjoe Do you acknowledge the vaccinated also spread the virus? If not, explain what we are seeing in Australia.

@barjoe Africa.

@puff No vaccine is 100% effective on an entire population, but they protect individuals and curb the circulation of the virus through the community.

[health-desk.org]

@puff The virus is not eradicated because of stupid motherfuckers who refuse the vaccine and are preventing immunity.

@LovinLarge Try using your brain rather than reading biased reports. Yes no shit Sherlock nothing in science is 100% (very little eg 2+2=4) but when "breakthrough infections" occur in the majority, not really "breakthrough" anymore is it? (quick, hurry up and search for something to cut and paste and dispute this as your brain does not function)

@puff fuck off dickbag (I cut and pasted that)

@puff You haven't provided any evidence that anything I've posted is biased or about breakthrough infections, Einstein. Believe me, no one here will take your word for anything, except the other dirty cons who don't even know what evidence is, of course.

@lovinlarge logic escapes covid cult fools like this... If the fact that 99% of those dieing from covid are the unvaccinated doesnt register in their pea brain nothing will....

@Redneckliberal As long as inbred, rednecked American's keep dying, I have no problem. "American Exceptionalism" at it's finest. Leading the world again Bahahahahaha
Let's go Brandon

@barjoe How should I fuck off messiah?

@puff dumb fuck and proud of it

@Redneckliberal We agree!!!!
PS I am also a dumb fuck

@puff Let's try this bit o'logic: While true that the vaxxed can still carry the virus it is also true that, if there were no unvaxxed hosts for the virus to live in, then there would be no virus to transmit. The virus is not having success at replicating in a vaxxed host so not killing them. Therefore, if the unvaxxed were vaxxed, then the virus would have at least six months in which protection from it was high. That's better than the 8 weeks of total quarantine to achieve that same goal. Does this make more sense to you?

@rainmanjr "it is also true that, if there were no unvaxxed hosts for the virus to live in, then there would be no virus to transmit." The virus can "live" and mutate then transmit to others in the vaccinated also so that is untrue.
Remember we are a global village now, so a vaccination program to eradicate this virus needs to be world wide. Logistically, I cannot see that happening unless you get at least 2 years of immunity, without the need for boosters. It's really just a time and numbers game and 6 months is not long enough to get to all. Another logistical issue is the shelf life of the vaccines ie could enough be produced, transported stored and administered so all have immunity coverage at the same time?
It is possible to have a world wide vaccination program, but not with the medicines available now.
Take covid medicines to protect yourself, but to assume it also can control and eradicate this virus is unrealistic.