Isn't there a "Sexy Everything"? LoL. Why should I care.. haha

He's the ultimate vegan.

All the things that you raised..I try to not kill ants, no swatting, I can totally help out stray animals. So.. it's not a restriction. It feels like a restriction. If everybody starts doing it tomorrow, it will be easy. For the diabetes part, there are enough options. My parents have diabetes and I am likely to have it too. Its not about respecting each other's decision. It's about hurting some beings that feels pain. If you try to kill your dog, should I stop you? I think I would. There's no difference between a dog and a cow at the sentience level.

Well, then you just don't care the pain the roasted one felt before to get to your table is what my point is. In your subjective moral, that's not immoral, because you just love your roast so much and can't think about living without it. LoL.

@AnandaKhan oh I can think quite easily of not having it. I tried the whole vegetarian thing for over a year. And while I have nothing against people who chose that way of life, its the ones like you who make people not care for the whole group. Being judgy is pretty much the least effective way of convincing another person. And it would be great if you could refrain from deciding for others what they do and don't care about.

Well, you seem very sensitive. You are killing a living being. If you kill your dog in front of me or eat dog meat like in China or Korea, should I stop you and criticize you? Yes. If I dont, most will show an eye brow to me. If you do the same to cows and pigs, why should I not? It's not about being judgy. And I was not. Well.. yes, I could be using more careful words to not hurt someone's senses. Point taken.

@AnandaKhan thank you. I am not saying your thoughts on the matter are wrong, I'm just saying just because they are right for you that doesn't mean that they are right for everyone. Bottom line seems to be we each are going to have to do something's In our lives that someone else will say is wrong. As long as you feel content with your choices, then they are right for you, and you don't have to like other peoples choices, but things go more smoothly in general when people can respect each others differences. Oh and by the way, I am indeed a very sensitive person, which is why it was so silly when you claimed that I somehow don't care. Also as I said before, morality is subjective, case in point, the dog and cat meat trade especially in parts of Asia. Do you think the people who are eating them think they arensome kind of terrible person for eating them? I doubt it. Would it have been morally acceptable, when it started, to allow their children to starve because it is wrong to eat a cat or a dog? Back when they where under siege and couldn't get any food to feed their cities,do you think they lost sleep over eating their prized race horses? Try to think about it from someone else's perspective, not so that you will change your mind, but so you can find some peace, because there will never be a world where we all agree on everything.

And you don't care the cows die and the chickens die. That's hidden in your sentence. LoL. I used to too. But when I saw the hidden line, I can no longer. But definitely it's up to you.

@AnandaKhan They're gonna die anyway, right? This way, they're dying for a good cause, relatively speaking.

@The_Antichrist You are gonna die anyway. Why can't someone powerful and more intelligent kill you and take your lands and wealth? That's what people thought thousands of years ago before murdering someone innocent, remember.. now they can't . Why? Because of the fear of going to the jail. What is a good cause? Good should be determined from the victim's perspective. No? We don't think animals as victims which is disturbing.

@AnandaKhan Survival of the fittest. We're at the top of the food chain. Eating meat is in our ancestry. "Good" is always relative. Relative to me, an animal dying so I can survive is "good." When man-eating aliens come to earth, we'll put up a fight to survive, but if they like how we taste and have more powerful weapons, then, like the cows, we become burgers. So, someone more powerful and more intelligent can kill me and take my lands and wealth despite the laws of the land. Aliens are not afraid of going to jail. Suffering is a greater evil than death. Death ends suffering, does it not? So, in one sense, death is a good thing, even good to animals who no longer have to suffer any pain. So when I eat a Big Mac, I'm helping put an end to some cow's suffering. Your issue is not with the meat-eaters of the world; your beef is with God, the creator of all suffering.

@The_Antichrist You just made me laugh with your idea of goodness, logic and understanding and your condescending rationalization. I am not here to win argument against you. I care the pain and suffering the animals feel. I can put myself in their shoes and it feels horrible to me. And I think I should not be a part of that cruel process because I love them and I have plentry of choice and options. Period. Good luck.

@AnandaKhan Enjoy your tofu and B12 supplements.

@The_Antichrist everything green. LoL

That is not true. Animal farming causes the most of tree and green destruction. Check how the Brazilian rain forests vanished because of animal farming. And to produce cheese, the amount of milk get used is insane. But anyway, I understand the concern. Hope this world will maintain it's green. We will have to do something about it.

Good concerns. But think about all the people who worked in the slave trades. Were that a good reason to allow slavery? I think no. It needs time to change. I don't envision that the world will ever go vegan anyway. I know most won't change. But what I and you can do is what I think about. Because most won't is not my reason to be something.

Nature is full of domination, rape and killings. Nature had never intended human to be what human are now. Nature can't even protect its ownself. Yes, if there were no other options for you around you, we should eat meat for survival, that's what Hunter gatherers did. We have vegan shops in every corner these days. And rest I agree with you.

@AnandaKhan Thanks for recognizing this...millions of people on the planet cannot grow vegetables (no water...bad soil...nomadic peoples can't stick around to fertilize carrots, etc.) Many more live in places where snow/ice preclude agriculture. These people raise goats, cattle, horses, etc, and follow them as they search for grass. I admire vegans who choose to eat the way they do but I lose all patience when they DEMAND that we ALL follow their choice.

@LucyLoohoo I don't think anyone can force their choice on anyone. Not only veganism, literally anything. I can only encourage for good reasons. But people use these logic to avoid doing what they can do themselves- is the problem. It's not about me or me trying to convincing your or you joined the vegan club or whatever nonsense. It's about the animals themselves which feel the pain and want to live and may be even don't want to be born just to be killed.

@AnandaKhan I've worked for many years at a zoo and have loved animals all my life. I've studied them in the wild and have a fairly well-educated idea of their ''wants." Believe me, the idea of ''don't want to be born just to be killed" is probably a (sincere but) misguided bit of anthropomorphism.

We all have to fight our impulse to put human thoughts into animals' brains. Recognize that ''hoofstock'' (that's a huge family group--ruminants, mostly) evolved to be eaten...not to perform calculus or painting, literature, etc. Their brains aren't evolved for cognitive thought...they react, but they don't PLAN. It's instinct...nothing else.

They're called ''prey'' animals for a good reason. Have you ever watched a lion kill a zebra? It's very quick...usually done with finesse, really. The neck is severed/spinal cord rendered useless and it's over very quickly. I've seen mother zebras (or impala, kudu, gerenuck, etc) watch while their baby is taken and then, just walk away. It's life.

You and I feel more complicated emotions and our very empathetic human brain wants to imagine animals with brains resembling ours. In many ways, their brains are superior to ours...their senses are keener, their responses are more direct. We've traded that instinctive response for intellectual ones. It's neither superior nor inferior. It just IS.

Well, that's the best case scenario. But as you know if ultimately you want to eat them up, then you are not caring about their pain. Think in this way, let's say there's an ultra intelligent alien who makes us slaves, and they love human meat, they put us in grinders, or in this more nicer way, they raise us in their home, then they eat us. It may happen in future when AI may create super intelligent cyborgs too. So.. hope you get my point. But anyway, ultimately it's about being compassionate.

@AnandaKhan What might you eat if it was determined that plants feel pain... including their embryos that are seeds and nuts? Microbial cultures?

@BobFenner They feel, they also suffer. But they don't have a central nervous system like animals do and the level of suffering is significantly different. Palnt doesn't die because you cut some of the leaves, in fact some thrive that way. You can extract from plant without killing it, and most of the time it doesn't seem harmed. But you can not extract a leg or hand without harming and animal.. in fact that will be even more cruel. Some extreme Buddhists don't even eat plants by the way because they care life in general. I think that will be against your survival.

@AnandaKhan Are you a Jain, by any chance?

@LucyLoohoo Nope, born and raised in a hardcore conservative muslim family.

You apparently don't understand the science of pain. They definitely suffer and feel, but that suffering and pain is not at the same part of animals hich have central nervous system. It took millions of years to evolve from a unicellular to multicellular life to animals to developed brain. So, you just sang a funny copo so that you can continue to inflict pain. Anyway..

Slaughterhouses specialize in sudden death, not inflicting pain. Sorry, but I am not buying the guilt trip you want to inflict on all non-vegans. Switzerland did just ban boiling lobsters without stunning them first [theguardian.com]