Happy new year. A bit of my boring personal story, but if you are hung over and need a read you are welcome.
Not all cults hide in isolated farms far from prying eyes, many like the Jesuit cult hide in plain sight within the mainstream churches. I nearly fell for one myself.
I took a convoluted route, since like many in the UK I was raised as only a nominal Christian, with little real contact with the actual faith. I did however grow up thinking that people who embraced such a selfless value system, as that preached by Jesus, must be basically very good people, though my family cast doubts on the more extreme forms.
I did however, like many in the UK, end up going to a Christian school. Where I was sadly disillusioned, to find that many who preached and followed Christianity, were often in fact quite horrible people, with only shallow cosmetic values. While being raised to ask questions and respect science and evidence, I soon found it hard to believe as I was asked to.
It was then, at about thirteen or fourteen, that I was introduced to the metaphorical cult, where religion is seen as a metaphor, not to be taken literally, but to be interpreted as containing deep wisdom, ( Often hidden and cryptic wisdom. ) which is today, a popular cult among the English clergy. For a while it seemed to resolve all the problems, and to a narcissistic teenager hold out the promise of special exclusive wisdom, not given to lesser contemporaries, and I was soon deep into the cults ideas, and willing to follow anything its gurus said was good. For a while I was a deep believer, who really thought he had been give the keys that unlocked the door to wisdom. But then at higher education I met a school master, perhaps the most horrible and dishonest of all people I ever met, who espoused the metaphorical cult as his main ideology, and used it to justify the most horrible extremes of racism, class bias and sexism.
At which point I saw that nearly all the cult members I knew, were the same, simply seeking to justify established prejudice and vanity. So I learned that wisdom could not be based on interpretation alone, since things which are most open to interpretation, especially those treated with respect as supposed sources of deep, even magical, wisdom, are the natural intellectual weapon of the criminally minded. Because if you despise reason and popular opinion, then you need to go somewhere for justification. I became aware of the deep dishonesty of a clergy, who preached literal belief to the congregation on Sunday, and reaped the benefits of that, yet secretly talked the metaphorical cult among themselves on weekdays. Who poured scorn on science, yet made claims that their wild interpretations came with the same value as science, and that hard work, courage and rigour, such as that shown by science and mainstream philosophy, is essentially effort wasted, when equal wisdom comes, equally well, from sitting comfortably in the warm, reading confirmation biased literature written by fellow theists.
At which point I lost it with religion.
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12 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Yes, the most pious of the religious people in my circle growing up were also the most unhappy and the most vicious in their treatment of others.
I was made to believe that if bad things were happening to me, and God wasn’t watching out for me by assisting me with guardian angels, it was because I didn’t believe enough. But I just couldn’t.
Then when the new age spiritualists came around, acting like they had some secret answers, I was intrigued, for about 30 days, until I saw it was just smoke screens and mirrors, just an act, an attempt to create some sort of mystique one had to buy into to understand. They didn’t know anything I didn’t know, but they hid that fact behind some sort of mysterious connection only they could reach but their followers never will.
It was then that I realized that philosophical wisdom can be found in many forms of literature, fiction and nonfiction. We can gain an understanding of life around us and how we should treat others and expect to be treated by learning from more than one source.
A good philosophy of life comes from a wealth of ever-changing literature, social interaction, entertainment, art and education. Things that help us to recognize and adapt to new social norms, telling stories of reactions good and bad from average people going through the struggles and triumphs of normal life in today’s world.
Interaction with others going through the same daily strifes as ourselves, learning and growing together and thinking for ourselves is a better fit for many of us.
Tapping into a religion created thousands of years ago just doesn’t really cut it in today's world, but it is an instrument one can hide behind to justify ill treatment of others. Sure, good treatment too, but do we really need a religion to recognize truth and fairness?
Julie808
Level 8
Jan 1, 2023
5
Perfect, if there is wisdom in this world, then I think that you are its enbodiment.
MizJ:
It would seem that those in generations following ours might find the type of wisdom you refer to challenging to obtain. Pre-internet one had to seek it in a more active manner. I find it a bit ironic that youth today have access to it in their pocket yet I wonder if what they get is more superficial, a Reader's Digest form.
An example is a decade ago and a classmate 30 years younger and I did papers. She used brief articles, I used books and articles and was able to draw from a broader spectrum. Both papers earned good grades but my understanding of the material must have been greater.
Another aspect that you refer to is exposure to a range of thoughts and cultures. Again I saw this when taking classes surrounded by much younger people. How can one comprehend the term ethnocentricity without the experience of travel? Viewing art is a far richer experience than photos in a book.
@Fernapple Yes, I think we are all products of our exposure to experiences and other thoughts besides our own. The more we learn, it seems the less we are sure we know, haha. Sometimes there is danger in that surety. If we only read one book and are exposed to one group of people, we can't really grow much or understand the bigger picture.
You lost me at boring. If someone tells me his story is boring, I believe him.
Killtheskyfairy
Level 9
Jan 1, 2023
2
A good read, and I now feel like I know you even better. Happy New Year to you as well.
Redheadedgammy
Level 9
Jan 1, 2023
6
Thanks for posting. It helps when anyone gets down to fundamentals.
I presume that the step out of religion gave you progress. Where do you look for progress now besides this site?
Mcfluwster
Level 7
Jan 1, 2023
2
I am always moving, and philosophically an Epicurian, with the love of nature at the heart.
Thanks for posting. I put up with Christian apologetics which are lies the entire time I studied for the ministry. Dropping away from that, I lived in guilt for a majority of my life. Drinking was wrong but I became alcoholic and would sometimes cry over my lost Christianity. One day I woke up to see this was all just myth and superstition. There are no gods and their are no hells except for the hell we each make for ourselves. I've never been more free in my life.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Jan 1, 2023
7
Sorry to hear about the drink, that is not good. I was raised in a heavy drinking culture, but fortunately it never grabbed a deep hold on me.
Hell is clearly here on earth! That’s why religious folks insist on believing there’s something grandeur in store for them?!
@Fernapple Drink got ahold of me and I'm an alcoholic. Today is different because I see no point in being drunk. If i wanna get drunk I can usually stop and eat after 3 drinks or less and be done for that day or night. I always have beer and whiskey around. Right now I have 2 beers and a shot of whiskey and will not drink today. I also did not drink last night either. I saw no reason to drink.
I think that generally people are as “good” as they are able to be, with the tools they have. Some are lucky to be born with many tools, some are able to acquire tools…and some are denied access to the tools that would allow them greatness. Societal and familial scripting go a long way toward allowing, or not, people to develop their skills/tools.
I enjoyed reading about YOUR journey. I’m sure there is a lot more to it.
KateOahu
Level 8
Jan 1, 2023
6
Surely they have their downsides, but I had thought Jesuits to be a step above the Catholic rank and file priesthood. George Coyne was a cosmologist Bill Maher interviewed for Religulous and another Jesuit came up with the Big Bang.
Scott321
Level 7
Jan 1, 2023
1
They are great educators yes and have been thinkers, but they also are at the core of the Catholic propaganda machine, and run cult of original guilt and have been involved in some of the church's darker right wing activeties, and managed some of its worst schools.
Thanks, although I didn't have a headache before.
waitingforgodo
Level 8
Jan 1, 2023
5
You are welcome.
An interesting journey. Although made to go to Sunday school and then church the whole religion thing went right over my head and only in later years did I read widely including the bible at length and came to the conclusion that religions are just archaic superstitions that are long overdue to be ditched.
My problem is that I live in a small village and most of my friends are churchgoers some fairly devout so this does cause friction as they gradually realised that I despise religion and am more of an anti theist than an atheist.
An example was I was invited to a Burns supper a couple of years ago and found myself sitting next to the local church of Scotland minister. A pleasant enough young guy, an ex policeman who went from saving people's possesions to saving their souls.
Maybe it was purely my fault but I found it difficult to make polite conversation all evening .
Moravian
Level 8
Jan 1, 2023
6
Yes i try to keep to secular subjects when talking to clergy. A lot of them are good people if misguided, and I see no point in causing hurt when there is no need.
That reminds me of when my father was on Hospice (an organization I can't say enough positive things about).
One of the things they set up was a spiritual advisor -- a Christian pastor to 'help' my father.
My father wasn't religious. He just didn't care much about spiritual matters. The advisor wasn't a bad guy 'though.
The advisor happened to be a morning person and it was convenient for him to come over before my father (and usually also my wife) was awake in the morning. He seemed honest and forthright and we had some long conversations.
I am a life-long Atheist but the nature of the situation especially enforced that neither of us had any ill will for each other. I'm sure that, again neither of us, changed our opinions about anything. But it wasn't a terrible experience hearing him trying to explain his reasons for his positions.
MizJ:
@Fernapple In re to clergy one strategy is to ask where they studied, not what they studied. Then you can use locales as a topic instead of theology. Just before my father passed I called the RC church to give my father the chance to speak to a priest. He was religious and balked but ended up having a good conversation and felt more at peace. I spoke to the priest privately afterwards without any mention of religion. He was from Africa and had only been here for a few years. I suspect very few others had asked about his personal journey as he was very engaged. They are people with different viewpoints, we are all the same race.
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