"Ethnocentrism" is a very big part of the equation!

@Archeus_Lore There are many forms of "us versus them", none of them leads in the direction of harmony.

Agnosticism is not a belief system, it is a lack of belief systems.

@Archeus_Lore Yeah. I'm agnostic too and that's as close as you can get, but still.. even that is in a way a belief system. If you're ALIVE you have have SOME KIND of beliefs, right? Even if it's a belief in not having beliefs!

@Storm1752 It is well documented that humans are hard-wired to believe in something, religion, politics, principles, ideas.... the list goes on.

@Ryo1 From our beliefs, whatever they may be, we derive our notion or sense of an identity which may become rigid with the passage time or become flexible and open to new information. I recall the words of Bertrand Russell: "history is replete with men and women who have gone to their deaths for their beliefs, there is nothing new in this and it will continue into the foreseeable future.

"Only fools and fanatics are certain, the wise are always full of doubts." Bertrand Russell.

@Ryo1 An interesting aside, Aldous Huxley, in the book Island, considered the idea that each person has their own "island" of refuge that they create in their mind, something that gives them shelter and comfort from the outside world. After reading it, I think I became somewhat less attached these particular islands, and looked outside of them more. Also, I eventually came to the conclusion, with the help of Huxley, that there can exist no utopia, for utopias are just as subject to change as everything else, time eventually changes everything, so a true utopia could never exist.

The following is an AI summary of the book Island:

Can you give me a philosophical outline of Aldous Huxley's book "Island"?

"Island" is a novel by Aldous Huxley that describes a utopia located on an island in the Indian Ocean. The society on the island is based on a philosophy of balance and harmony, and the people there live in a state of contentment and fulfillment. The novel explores themes of individual freedom, the dangers of technology and over-reliance on it, and the importance of spiritual and emotional well-being. Huxley also critiques the idea of a perfect society and the dangers of blindly following a leader or ideology. Ultimately, the novel suggests that true happiness and fulfillment can only be found through a balance of physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, and that true freedom comes from being able to think and act independently.

Can you elaborate on the significance of Huxley's use of the title Island?
In "Island", the title Island refers to the physical location of the utopia where the story takes place, but it also has a deeper symbolic significance. The island is isolated from the rest of the world and serves as a microcosm, or a small representation of the larger society. It represents a sanctuary, a place of refuge, where the people of the island can escape the problems and issues of the outside world.

The title Island also serves as a metaphor for the idea of a perfect society, as it suggests that a utopia can be found in isolation, separate from the rest of the world. However, as the story unfolds, it becomes clear that the island is not truly an island, but a part of the world, and the issues that plague the outside world still exist on the island, just in a different form.

Additionally, the title Island also implies the concept of "insularity" which is a state of being isolated, both physically and mentally, from the rest of the world. The island community is isolated and closed off, with very little communication or contact with the outside world. This insularity is problematic as it limits the society's ability to learn, grow and adapt to the changing world.

Overall, the title "Island" is used by Huxley as a tool to symbolize the idea of a perfect society, but also to challenge this idea by showing that true happiness and fulfillment can only be found through a balance of physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, and that true freedom comes from being able to think and act independently.

@Archeus_Lore I have to admit that I have never read any of the works of Aldous Huxley although I once looked at copy of Brave New World in a second-hand bookshop in London.

The only isolated island that I know of that is cut off from the rest of the world is the Sentinel Islands. We are gregarious creatures, social beings. It seems to me that there needs to be a balance between being alone and being with other people. Likewise, there has to be a balance between mental and physical activities as expressed in the Latin phrase Mens sana in corpore sano.

One hundred years ago a sixty year old man was ten times more active than the average twenty year old man is today. Admittedly, one hundred years ago people did not have the comforts and level of technology that we enjoy today which has also brought about a drop in physical activities.

In the modern societies in which we live it could be said that we are relatively independent or interdependent, nobody is completely independent for the simple reason that we rely on many people for the provision of a variety of services.

In terms of our bodies, we do not beat our hearts, we do not breathe, we do not operate the rods and cones in our eyes and we do not digest our food. Fortunately, the aforementioned is all regulated by the autonomic nervous system; if we had to manage those processes we would probably perish. So, as far as life is concerned most of the work is carried out for us, it just requires a degree of maintenance.

@Archeus_Lore, @Ryo1 Theoretically, an agnostic is not wedded to beliefs of any kind, so has no islands. For instance, are you willing to change you OPINION there is, or is not, such a thing as God? Are you willing to change a given OPINION if new facts come to one's attention? If you're liberal or conservative about a given issue, event, or person, or overall viewpoint, do you have a "litmus test," or do you REALLY have an open mind? But we all have our "sacred cows..."
That doesn't mean one stops being an agnostic. If Jesus Christ knocked on my door, or I was presented with absolute proof that Jews were responsible for killing him, I'd be forced to change my point of view. Some liberals wouldn't. For now I'll continue to think he never existed, in human form, anyway.

@ASTRALMAX Well said, mate. If we are all truly independent, physically and mentally, there would be no such thing as society.

@Storm1752 I'd need more than just some clown knocking on my door and saying he was Geezus, and the first thing out of my mouth that would come out after seeing some guy that pretended to be Geezus by dressing the fake Caucasian part would probably be "Geezus fucking Christ!" . . . . Maybe if he could produce a miracle or two, like changing the course of the moon's path, or farting out an elephant, I might buy the story!

@Archeus_Lore He'll probably come in an inter-dimensional craft with lots of "miraculous" gadgets.
I'm reading a lot about it, and I'm convinced the Romans made him up. For a LOT of reasons.
But I'm also reading the moon is hollow, and was moved into it's present orbit by a race of aliens, whose civilization was 2.3 billion years old!
I believe that too, for a lot of defensible reasons. So, I don't know why anyone would listen to me!

@Ryo1 Of COURSE we believe in something, try NOT believing something. That's the same thing as not thinking.

@Storm1752 That should include you trying not to believe in yourself. See what consequences you will face.

@Ryo1 I don't "believe in" myself. What consequences? Btw, I'm now convinced the moon ISN'T hollow; imagine my disappointment.

Our will is influenced by our experiences, yes. Our culture, exposure, possibly genetics could be included. A child raised in an urban Western environment and one raised isolated in the Amazon rainforest would become very different adults.

I will concede, it could have been worded better, on the other site I posted it, I actually removed that sentence altogether, just forgot to do it here.

I will concede, it could have been worded better, on the other site I posted it, I actually removed that sentence altogether, just forgot to do it here.

@Archeus_Lore It's not necessarily the wording itself. It is the broad generalisation and assumption about Christians you present in the first paragraph. It is often the case that people only engage in generalisation, which never leads to good debates/arguments.

@Ryo1 I'm not sure what part of "I actually removed that sentence altogether" you did not understand.

Other forums have a mechanism to change all input formatting to completely their own, hence no mixture on reposting. A possible explanation?

@Mcfluwster El if I know.

@Archeus_Lore Is it possible to work the answer out for yourself? -given my extra information. After all it is just a suggestion and I could be wrong. The percentage of things that one has to work out for yourself is constantly increasing. This is an enlightened age but if you are living in El it will not be your perception, I Agee.