If someone asked you, as an atheist or agnostic, if you feel that everything is just random not with any purpose? How would you answer?
Someone just asked me this because, in our conversation about religious denominations, I said I'm a humanist. So, he replied "Oh, so, you think everything in the world is just random, with no purpose?"
I felt this was a misunderstanding of what a humanist believes. My feeling is that only a few things in life are random and that most things are done with a purpose, so I answered both. He said "No, it can't be both. It's only one or the other."
I replied that I do things mostly with a purpose or reason. I ended the conversation by saying I don't want to argue because I think we are misunderstanding each other. (This was one of my conversations in the pool with a visitor.)
What I wanted to to say, and will say if I see him again, is that for me, it doesn't need to be only random or that everything has a purpose, but what I really believe in is natural consequences.
Most everything around us happens as a result of natural consequences. It may seem random to others, if they don't seek the science. Looking into why things happen, there usually is a reason or pressure mounting to push something to happen.
What do you think? How would you answer?
Why must there be only one answer? We see in 3D and some answers have more than one cause. We may often believe our actions reflect back as purpose or reason but our beginnings are random. How many sperm try to impregnate an egg and which of those become YOU? That is a random action but your life has future repercussions on the purpose and/or life of others- marriage for example has the purpose of procreation: a natural urge. We have a lot of natural urges that influence others and ourselves. If you're a hunter you kill a deer which affects her fawns starving to death.
I think almost half of each is true. Half the time it's random because nature, the earth, most humans don't really give a shit about each individual action. There are billions of actions a second how can all of them be purposeful? Then we must ask what purpose do all those billions serve?
The purposes of many such as voting, war, religion need to attract individuals to participate. They have somewhat of an effect on everyone because they intentionally attract humans to belong which isn't always good for non believers. They often claim to serve a purpose and most of the time it's money.
I guess I'm not totally convinced one way or another.
Nothing is random and events and beings do not have to have a purpose. The bottom line is that there are some things we do not know and may never know. Trying to tie a god to everything is simply a claim that you do know when you do not. If you believe Genesis literally did god tell Moses how he did things and when did this happen? As far as genomes and DNA go, things evolve.
You handled that well. Virtually nothing is random as virtually everything has reason.
everything happens because of causes, not reason.
@Thibaud70 In English a reason is a cause. Bicker elsewhere.
reason
noun
1 he cited a lack of funds as the main reason for his decision: cause, grounds, ground, basis, rationale; motive, motivation, purpose, point, aim, intention, objective, goal, occasion, impetus, inducement, incentive; explanation, justification, case, argument, defense, apology, vindication, excuse, pretext, rationalization; warrant; the whys and wherefores; Latin apologia.
The qualifier "virtually" changes almost everything.
@CallMeDave If you have a point, let me know.
There is a lot of randomness and chaos in the world, and that randomness and chaos impacts all of us:
Extreme weather
War and violence
Financial turmoil
The irrational (and rational) acts of others.
We can set our own goals and pursue the activities we enjoy and do the best to engage in those enjoyable activities and to achieve the goals we have set for ourselves.
We don't need the help of any gods to achieve those goals or to engage in those activities.
"everything is just random not with any purpose?" Of course almost all people are referring to humans. Our universe started by some unknown forces and progressed forward (evolution tends toward complexity) and eventually some intelligent life emerged (and definitely not just on Earth). Is that a purpose? There is a theory that this universe was not just a one time thing and new universes are constantly becoming into being. Each will have its own rules. It should be clear natural consequences are always at work all the time even in our own individual lives.
However, I have a problem with the concept of humanism. I was a member of the Humanist group for years. Things started to go downhill a few years ago and a lot of people quit the Humanist group (I am now a member of the "Free Inquiry" group which is a subset of the American Humanist Society). Some parts of the humanist group became too involved in humans (social justice and like movements) but fail to see the bigger picture of our species just being one of millions of other species all with their own value to life here and even our existence. With our growing exponential numbers we are literally sawing off the limb on which we reside, and taking thousands of other species with us.
My position is not for centroism of any kind. Yet can incorporate with any group and ask any questions. Then just take the good bits and adapt them into my universal circle. If atheists grew to be like a USSR or Mao communist dictatorship again, I would not be for them. Not against any group, just would not join in their series of problem of us against them. They may say there is no I in team. There is I in independence, individualism and integrity. Can't find a better leader than myself and a team of strong individuals to work with. Work and love keeps it centered in peace.