What did you learn from them?

@TuyTran888
After many hundreds of hours debating with theists I have learned:

I can de-convert (save from superstition) about five percent of them. (This number is calculated by the number of once theists who later thank me for saving them from the insanity of religion)

I can bring some theists to tears or literally fall to their knees as I expose their faith based foundation as having no merit. (this happened in three cases including a long talk with a priest)

Some theists are so damaged (indoctrinated) that they can nott value truth over faith and are not able fully appreciate the great value of the one life we live as they believe in an afterlife that is completely unsupported by testable facts.

A number of theists I debate become frightened and quickly run away.

Religions (Christianity) has caused the death of a very young person I once knew.
Religion is used by many to exploit the weak minded

I learned to pity them greatly as some are good people.

@NoMagicCookie tell me why do you have to do that? What is wrong with their religion?

@TuyTran888
I think you live a very lonely life with your attitude ?

@VAL3941 You just guessing. From what information that making you make such assumption? Why do you do not like religion, do you even know the reason? Doing things and does not even actually know why, that is very lonely in head.

@TuyTran888
I think you should get some religious counseling, Pronto !

@VAL3941 Why would I need that? You have not told me anything about religion yet except you just hate it.

@TuyTran888
You are as well versed in religions as what I am, go figure !

@VAL3941 We have not really verses anything about religion yet. Why, or, how or what it does to mankind? Then what should we do about it? is it good or not?

@NoMagicCookie can you tell me more how do you debate them and de-converting them?

@TuyTran888 What is wrong with religion?
It is sad that I have to repeat several of my earlier clearly stated points as it implies you were not able to extract my examples of what is wrong with religion. This time I'll start each example by prefacing each point with:

The following are what is wrong with religion: (earlier quoted with additional details of of what is wrong with religion) NOTE: Faith (asserting belief as fact without evidence) is the tool of religion.

#1 "Some theists are so damaged (indoctrinated) that they can not value truth over faith and are not able fully appreciate the great value of the one life we live as they believe in an afterlife that is completely unsupported by testable facts." This is a profoundly damaging condition as, to roughly quote the Youtuber AntiCitizenX in talking about faith over facts, " . . . this leaves their heads open to believe whatever bucket of nonsense someone decides to dump in."**

#2 This repeated quote also addresses the cheapening of the value of the one life we have evidence that we actually have.

#3 "Religions (Christianity) has caused the death of a very young person I once knew." She was a lovely (inside and out) young woman. Her friends found beneath her hanging body a note that read, "I've killed myself so I can live forever with my dad and Jesus in heaven."

#4 "Religion is used by many to exploit the weak minded." There are countless examples of the exploitation of people in the name of religion. My favorite story is an elderly woman who sent all her money to a televangelist because the televangelist promised that if she sent god/ the televangelist all her money, "God will bless you with wealth and happiness". Soon after she sent him her life savings she was diagnosed with cancer but without money for treatment, soon died a painful death. Her son contacted the church to ask for some of her money back but (surprise surprise) the church did not help the woman they had just bilked.

#5 ** to continue from earlier noted example with another what is wrong point: Our healthy existence as a civilization is dependent on dealing with reality with facts and making decisions based on facts not superstitions. There are many examples of the perils of not trusting facts (science supported by demonstrable facts) ) over faith (belief without evidence) I could write a small book of the ill path we (Americans) are taking but I'll leave you with "Climate Change"

Thus ends the examples noted earlier. . . so to continue. . .

#6 I am guessing not all, but all religious I have encountered have been conditioned (at some level) to fear and/or hate those who do not drink their flavor of imaginary cool-aid. Several (just over half) of those I have de-converted have told me how much happier they are now as they are no longer afraid of those their church told them to fear for example: Sinners, like any member of other religion or lack or religion or any person not a straight monogamous heterosexual. I have encountered Catholics that openly assert God hates homosexuals and we should not allow them to live among us. (I am not gay but many of my friends are.)

#6b This conditioning also drives divisive wedges of intolerance between members of families that do not drink the same cool-aid.

#7 Religions often promote policies that are detrimental to our society and the health of individuals. For example: The Catholic church opposition to condoms.

#8 Religions often promote unnecessary suffering and trauma: I have a friend that is a Hospice Nurse. She remains silent and respectful when the priest delivers last rites but it is so terribly common that the priest will tell the dying man or woman,"Because you were married before you lived in sin so you can not go to heaven (as you did not make good with the church). The way these (insert expletive here) priests torment perfectly good people so they die in fear and betrayal of their promised happy afterlife is what I would consider unnecessary suffering.

This brings to mind a similar story: Years ago this community had an atheist club. One day we (the atheist club) went to a Unitarian church. While there I engaged with a couple of Jewish people (who left rather annoyed at me as I drove them down the Zephrya road and they had to (and vigilantly defended) the good Jewish man for killing and burning his young daughter to please god because god loves the smell of burning flesh. To continue, one of the members from the U church decided his wife should meet me as I "seemed to understand how everything works" (his words). At the following atheist group get together (local Star Bucks on Sunday) They were both there and shared the following story:

His wife (transitioning to agnostic) had a good friend (let's call her Ann). Ann was a young woman who was the most devout Christian one could possibly imagine (the majority of Ann's free time was spend reading god's words and praying to god) in addition, Ann tithed her expected 15% to her church and donated much of her time to serve the church.

A few months before the couple told me the story, Ann was diagnosed with a very aggressive cancer. At first Ann was not worried as she told the church and she knew that as everybody was praying for her, she would soon be cancer free.

The next week her condition worsened so the members of her church again prayed (with less enthusiasm) for Ann.
The next week her condition was significantly worse and the churchers began to look down on Ann.
The following week she was not at all welcomed in church and openly mocked by what Ann had thought were her church friends and (with the exception of the wife telling this story) began her dying process completely alone. (her parents were out of state and not wealthy so they were unable to make it to our town).

The wife asked me, "Why? Why is this happening? She was such a good Christian woman who never did anything wrong." Why would her friends leave her alone? They no longer accept her calls and Ann is terrified, She can't keep from crying, believing she must have done something wrong to displease god."

To me the answer was obvious and required no time to reflect on her story.

The fact that Ann did not recover with prayer demonstrates their prayer of god’s chosen church goers was inafective. Because the devout churchers can not accept this reality, they invented a scapegoat scenario (Ann is not one of us, she is evil and god hates her) to maintain their faith (belief without evidence) based belief that their god is real and answers their prayers. It is more important to the church goers that they maintain their faith then the welfare of Ann. There are many such stories but I hope you understand the point. To sum this up, Please witch this:

@TuyTran888 can you tell me more how do you debate them and de-converting them?

Yes I can.

detailed accounts would take a lot of typing as there are several stories each with a different origin, and process.

I'll give you the fastest story that (summed up) took place during about a two hours conversation with a priest, (he was a captive member of the audience waiting for a helicopter christening) by using his knowledge of faith and demonstrating how faith was a blight on the mind that should value truth over superstition, then expanding on how his religion was not a force for good but a force for evil (promoting faith over facts) as it's sole purpose was to distort the importance and superiority of reality and bilk gullible people to keep the churches, like the social parasites, many are in power. How is was not doing a service but actually damage to society. As the foundation of religion was faith and there is absolutely no reliable evidence to support a god claim. At the end of our discussion he was in tears admitting that I was correct on all accounts. He asked me, "But what can I do?" I told him about The Clergy Project. On a brighter note, that was the very last time he ever asked me to call him father. The origin of the discussion was him asking me, "Why won't you call me father?" In his case, it was very useful to have a long list of bible atrocities to use as examples of how evils the bible actually was. As he had actually studied the bible, he agreed.

Another success story involved many months and countless hours of polite discussions on a wide variety of (religion/science/morality etc topics. In his case, introducing him to the Youtuber Edward Tarte (Tarte was a Catholic priest for 5 years but he figured out it was all BS, left the church and became a rather vocal atheist) was the final nail in his coffin of superstition as he believed a priest was an emissary of god an not capable of not believing in god as god is Truth. He is much happier now as he no longer has night terrors about burning in hell forever (his church promoted this fear) He was not the original intended target for de-conversion but one who overheard a discussion with a hardened Catholic who promoted a litany of religious nonsense. One day my original target (not the success story) (our debates would the Hardened Catholic usually last three hours a night (5 nights a week) and went on for weeks (he was really fun to debate as it was like playing high speed whack-a-mole. He would introduce a ridiculous argument and I would quickly destroy it. One day (the day after I treating him with much warmth respect and understanding) I found him in the fetal position in the corner of a stairway at the local YMCA (men's health club room). I left him alone that day as he, holding himself tightly, was clearly troubled.

The longest transition took a few years with many arguments but when a (onen of many) local Christian politician introduced a Person-hood amendment to our state, my friend saw the light of reason and is now the most vocal Atheist I know as she became aware of all the evils being committed to our society in the name and authority of religion. I can't really take full credit for her recovery from Catholicism but I was instrumental in laying the groundwork.

There are a few other stories but I need to work on other projects.

@NoMagicCookie Well, can you tell me Why and what make you put effort into this?

@TuyTran888
Do you disagree with everyone ????

@VAL3941 before I can agree, I have to ask sufficient questions to see what is it I am agreeing to, If not that would be a huge mistake for me, because I would agree blindly.

@TuyTran888
Are you such an idiot that you must try and debate with someone on the same side as you ? What do hope to achieve, one upmanship ???

@TuyTran888 "Well, can you tell me Why and what make you put effort into this?"

Really!?

I put effort into educating theists about the value of truth over superstition because:

• • re-read my reply to "what is wrong with religion" I listed eight reasons a person that cares about truth and the health of society should put effort into exposing the inherent evils found in faith based religions.

@VAL3941 As TuyTran888 often uses incorrect English phrasing and presents arguments that are indecisive and hard to understand, I, from the beginning, assumed he is actually a theist pretending not be a theist. His line of questioning smells like the less educated theists I routinely encounter. I will however grant you, I occasionally encounter well educated theists that are bright and well informed. They are a joy to debate with as we each recognize the strong background of historical knowledge of the effects of religion. Sadly, most theists do not fall into this category.

@NoMagicCookie Ok, You made your stupid assumption, I play that game. How since you so proud proclaim you are so good as converting theist, Let see if you can with me. The questions I asked you was trying to see if you are really what you claim. But I haven't get a chance to analyze it yet. So try me.

@NoMagicCookie Yes, You did give it out, I did not deny it. There are a lot of others things that hurt humanity as well not just religion, I was asking was to find the main cause for you to put effort in what you do. religion is bad and it is more worse than what you have listed.

@TuyTran888
You just like to argue and take the " I must win " attitude !

@VAL3941 I need to discuss, debate, share, argue Whatever or how you called it to find more information so that I can gain better knowledge, I question thing and people as well, Only idiots would afraid of question and jump to conclusion, and only idiots would afraid to be questioned by others.

@TuyTran888 "Ok, You made your stupid assumption"

No. You are wrong.

As despite my earlier request for you to clarify who "We" are you never addressed who you are "we" you are a subset of "we" are, Your lack or response on this very simple question leads me to assumer you are either inept in understanding and honesty answering even the simplest of question or you are a theist pretending to be a rational person.

It just occurred to me you may be ESL (English as a Second Language). If this is the case, I must formally apologize as this would explain your ineptitude. If you are ESL, you ave doing very well. I only fluently speak English.

As I (evidently incorrectly) assumed you were not inept, I gave you the credit of doubt and assumed you were a typical theist. As I noted earlier, Your questions (and grammatical skills) are completely in line with the the typical theist.

If you are honest and not a theist pretending to be trolling, I made an incorrect assumption. However, a sceptical analysis of your behaviour does not support the "stupid" claim as your use the same arguments and avoid the same questions that typifies a theists.

You made a good point about "There are a lot of others things that hurt humanity as well not just religion," (you really need to add a "," between "well" and "not".

However, look at your "other things that hurt humanity" and ask yourself, How many of these "things" are endorsed or tolerated by religion?

to answer your " I was asking was to find the main cause for you to put effort in what you do."

Here is a simple analogy of my defence of reason over faith.

Imagine you are a passenger on an ocean going ship called "Civilization" This is a large complicated vessel with many systems that lead to the failure of the ship. In the engine room (that which powers civilization) I work diligently to keep seals secure bearings lubricated and in tolerance, and flammable material from spilling. The work floor is clean thus reducing the chance the ship will burn from an engine educed fire. There are many other systems that could cause the ship to fail such as hitting an iceberg or running into another vessel. I do not pilot the boat. I can not control it's path. I can however try to keep fires from burning the engine room.