Flint Michigan.
Ok, serious post. Why can't we, the people, solve Flints problems?
WAY back in the day, when a community was threatened, the community would rise up and find a solution. They might well hire an expert from afield to help them with guidance but THEY would provide the man power to solve the problem.
I am an Engineer. Unfortunately, I am an Electrical Engineer so, if this were a problem with a power plant gone rogue, I'd drive out there and ask to see what the problem is. It's not. It's a problem for a Civil Engineer but it HAS to be a problem we engineers can fix.
The questions are:
What are the road blocks?
CAN the people say "fuck the system, we are going to fix it" or can't they? If not, why not?
I am sure that as we discuss, more questions will arise.
Here are the details I understand from some reading. The problem is that the pipes are lead based and that isn't an issue so long as a chemical agent is used at the water treatment plant to suppress the uptake of lead in the water.
So, I see two solutions (and this should be something ALL communities work on):
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Replace the pipes with pipes that are modern, more durable and NOT lead based, chemically safe for both the environment and the communities use... if possible, have them laid such that maintenance is easier in the future (should another, unseen, problem arise from this).
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Replace the treatment plant, since the government isn't willing to run the plant properly.
In either or both cases, I'd set things up so that the 'business' of doing this were run something like a coop but, I have to admit that I am a total dufus when it comes to Politics and Business (save that I can figure out how to sell something for at least what it cost to make, including fixed and variable costs... so, maybe not a complete dufus, just inexperienced and untrained).
So, with this and, hell any other pressing issue: why can't we get together and fix it?
Any input, any brainstorming you can/will do with me is appreciated... and, for the record, I live in an RV... I am toying with this because I am sort of a loose canon at this point in my life and I could easily move out there and squat long enough to see about figuring out a solution... though some real training first might not be a bad idea.
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9 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.For the record, at the point where I opened this discussion, I was not hearing any words of repair actions, just that Flint still didn't have clean water.
That said, this is a great discussion and I think it was positive... thanks to all of you for participating in a positive way.
I STILL think that community action is a way to solve problems such as this, and this despite the magnitude of such a problem. We need to be open to the idea of stepping up and fixing our own issues, where possible.
Thankfully, there is action here at the local, state and even federal level to get fixes put in place... the thing to watch for is that these fixes are handled equitably.
Gnarloc
Level 7
May 7, 2018
1
Doing some research and looking into places to start, and under the assumption that efforts were, or are, in some way stonewalled and I found this:
Lots of good information but the lede is important, they have initiated efforts to change out the pipes. Yes, this will take time but it's happening.
Gnarloc
Level 7
May 7, 2018
1
Given the magnitude of the problem, I would like to see the US Army Corps of Engineers go in there and replace all the pipes, at our collective expense.
bingst
Level 8
May 6, 2018
2
It is Michigan's fucking problem, Michigan should fix it because Michigan allowed it to happen.
Being ex military, Army to boot, I'd like to see this too but the engineers would have to work under orders OR go rogue. Based on the history in Flint, they aren't going to get orders (and SCROTUS is never going to see his way clear to taking care of his constituents), so, we'd have to ask a unit's leading officer to let them go on leave for a sufficient amount of time to get hands on training in water management. 
@bingst This started in 2014. While he couldn't be reelected, our political cycle is such that starting something like this with only two years to go... I get that it's sad he didn't get it done in those two years but I also get that the machinations of government might've been stacked against him in a way we don't know... not that I think that is a truly valid excuse.
That said, how much do you want to bet that in those two years he had a team come up with a good solution that just needed to be implemented by the next president... and here we are without one.
Unfortunately, the citizens of Flint, and the city council and mayor, don't have the money it would cost to replace everything. The state of Michigan (i.e., the Republican governor and his minions) are saying 'everything's fine as long as you all use your water filters' and the local residents are saying in response, 'you lied to us before so we have no reason to trust you now.' The state of Michigan has no desire to take on the massive cost and wants to pretend that the problem is resolved. They don't care that the citizens of Flint have been traumatized emotionally and perhaps physically as well. The fact that Flint is a majority-black city plays into this as well. We have a largely-white, largely republican legislature in Michigan. Most of those legislators don't want to have to explain to their constituents why so much money was spent on "those people."
If we could crowdfund all the infrastructure changes that are needed...
citronella
Level 7
May 6, 2018
2
Now there is a thought.
If we could figure out how much pipe is needed to change out the infrastructure, or to introduce proper water treatment procedures (personally, I think lead free pipes is the better choice) then we could do a "go fund me" with a goal of a certain amount of dollars to be used for replacing the pipes or...
This breaks down to pipes in houses (individual issues), pipes in the city/streets, pipes in businesses, or updating the treatment plant or it's management.
Makes me wish I were a Civil Engineer, I'd have a guess as to how to estimate the amount of pipe, what kind of pipe would be necessary and thus how to get a base cost estimate.
The answer to 99/ questions is . If our country is going to allow tax dollar to for a farce of a military parade for our child-in-power on Memorial Day, instead of actually honoring and helping the thousands of veterans that are homeless and suffering by spending that $$directly on them, would they spend the to fix the pipe problem THEY created (MI govt knowingly did this to one of the poorest cities).
I would love to have faith in humanity and think we could all pull together and be (gasp!) socialist in how we interact with each other, but our country is all about stepping on the little guy, or anyone in your way, to get ahead financially. I feel jaded to say this but I can't hide from the reality we live in.
Not sure how to get more people "woke" since most people I know that are resistant to talking about any of this are perfectly content living in their bubble. Any ideas from you all? Thanks!
GenesRUs
Level 3
May 6, 2018
2
All the pipes. All the pipes.
Every last pipe under every street and yard.
And nearly every pipe in every tenement and dwelling will need to be replaced.
That takes money.
Lots of money.
Excess money in the budget goes to $$$ to the .0001$%
That's how this country works.
We are their serfs.
BufftonBeotch
Level 8
May 6, 2018
2
That doesn't make the job insurmountable, just big. This talks to the size of the speed bump, not to an inability to drive over it.
@Gnarloc Apparently many of us are drinking rot water.
No regulations.
Whoopee!
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