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So who won? Both dodged questions. Trump being Trump appealed to his Maga crowd. Harris failed to defend 3-1/2 years of Biden when attacked. She failed to distinguish between 2000 dead and 41,000 dead and maybe 200,000 wounded. I suppose it is hard for a vice president to criticise her president.

rogerbenham 8 Sep 11
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3

I hear you and agree, but as an American who has long been disgusted with our corrupt, two party duopoly, the reality is that we presently have a shit sandwich choice, as usual, and the only decision is which sandwich has less shit in it. You can rightly gripe about Harris's policy choices, such as the Middle East crisis, but in the end, she is much less dangerous than Trump and will not be a dictator who will act with impunity from the SC and end our remaining democracy. Until we actually get a third party that most Americans will have the guts and integrity to support, instead of staying with the duopoly, any votes cast for third parties, will be merely symbolic, unless they are cast in swing states, where they would actually affect the outcome of a presidential race. In non presidential races, they can possibly matter in a constructive way. We really need ranked choice voting, but the major parties will never allow it. Same with real campaign finance reform..

Exactly. Thanks Tom. I view it as a backwoods dwelling Canadian and observe the helplessness under which you suffer. An extreme right wing party taken over by a complete self absorbed nutcase and a right of centre party pretending to care about the most vulnerable with a track record of an ever growing homeless population. Anything socialist scares the billionaires who run much of your country. Your people have no idfea what socialism is. I write as a once English Labour Party supporter turned into a Green Party candidate turned into a ballot burner. Socialism is providing water, sewerage, garbage collection, road and bridge building. But in much of the civilised world socialism includes free medical care, financial assistance, free education, state pensions. The USA claims to be the richest country in the world yet the only things you are top at are military might, numbers incarcerated, numbers of deaths by domestic guns. Compare yourselves with the quality of life held by scandinavian countries and you look like barbarians. And to my annoyance, you drag us down in some ways.
Justifying Israel's responce is agreeing with Israel that Palestinians must be removed from what once was Palestine. The most right wing Zionists want Palestinians gone or dead. This is what you support. Kill them like you killed the "Indians". And Canada feels weak to totally oppose you.

It will take getting big money out of politics. Sadly the U.S. has done a poor job of dealing with influence peddling by the wealthy.
Rank choice voting would make a huge difference but it's going to take clawing away control of the 2 major parties.

I just read this article in Common Dreams, one of the few groups looking at the USA from a non standard media way.

[commondreams.org]

Dick Chaney aligned with Harris, Liz Chaney has been as refreshing as Mary Trump but Dick should have been confined to living in a sewer, together with George Bush younger ( you millionaires are my kind of people).
What is right about criticism of Harris is that we really know little about what she proposes as we have largely just been fed feel good speaches lacking specifics. How will she deal with inflation or the housing crisis. Like in Canada, millions of refugees are coming in who need homes.. If you house a refugee rather than a citizen, is that right.?
Multinationals now decide prices. Wall street speculators buy companies and give themselves vast salaries as they slowly destroy the companies.Huge private groups take over housing and rentals and do so with no public interest but profit motives.
How does government funded by these corrupt interests tackle the problems.? One answer is make corporations not individuals and take all big money out of politics, but perhaps go the whole hog and make government money only fund elections and all elected paid average salaries with private money illegal.
$6,000 for every baby? Tax breaks are useless to the very poor who don't earn enough to pay tax.
Why is MAGA so strong? Because they are angry and they like seeing Trumps anger. Sadly they do not realise he in no way proposes to better their lives.
In Canada as well as the USA the numbers of people being kept alive by charities is ever growing whilst the numbers of miollionaires keeps growing.

[facebook.com]

@rogerbenham I've seen that video before, and it is powerful. Too bad so few Americans have ever watched it, much less accept its truths or take them to heart.

@TomMcGiverin The sad thing is that so many Americans have a terrible knowledge of geography whilst thinking that their country is rightfully policing the world, rather than facing the fact that the USA is the world's bully that eagerly goes and interferes with the politics of other countries.

@rogerbenham You nailed that! When it serves our interest for oil or empire, America is eager to bully and invade other countries, when we aren't pulling covert coups to topple governments that are too lefty or independent in how they run themselves.. But you have to give it to our corporate media, who never talk about that part of American foreign policy. Just the usual cheerleading for empire and corporate America...

4

She clearly won. His traditional "Gish Galloper" tactic failed. Did he still lie? Sure, but he was on the defensive and she was in control.

He has taken to disparaging her with "Then why didn't she do it these past four years?" and it's moot ... she was not the president and was not in the position of power. She is running her own campaign, not Joe's.

The question about Israel is moot at this point because we can work with her while she's in office whereas we know the orange traitor will favor Bebe completely, and Palestine will be gone. The over-arching point is that he will destroy the constitution and we will lose our democracy (and possibly much more), and she will help us keep it. We can then work it improve it. Hopefully the next debate will address more of that.

5

Trump looked like he was falling asleep and frequently looked like he wanted to stick his tongue out at her.

I'm not sure why people are saying she did nothing as VP. Vice president is is not a proactive role. She was President of the senate but had no vote. The VP is just a stand-in in case the president is unable to serve.

I was annoyed that they let Trump continue to babble after his time was up, but they cut Kamala off when she wanted to rebut something big butt said.

But all in all, I think she did a fabulous job making him look like the idiot he is. And the fact that she has the Swifties in her corner is going to help.

3

Kamala definitely won, Trump shit the bed.

2

Well she failed to explain her changing opinions. She could have shot back on his changes such as 2025 and abortions. She was weak on that response.
Sure she baited him and he fell right in. But he got away with some of his lies.
I just wish she would state her absolute opposition to Israel's massacre of civilians always supposedly shielding Hamas commanders.

5

She doesn't have to defend Biden. Biden is not who Trump is running against. She is making Trump run against her. She kicked his orange ass!

4

She won hands down. Try watching it again with the sound off. The split screen showed it all. Trump went from orange to bright red, meanwhile, she is veering between "wtf" and "Yes dear". He fell for every trap she set. Just one example on immigration, she briefly answered but mentioned his rallies. Was Trump disciplined in response or did he chase that squirrel?

8

trump was baited and reeled in like the bottom feeder that he is. I may not understand all the parameters of the various conflicts but there is no way I think donOld is capable.

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