how do you know there’s no
unknowable things?

@mattyrayfray Because if something exists, it can be discovered. It is really simple.

@bobhoff59 That’s not
a fair truism. How can you demonstrate that you can demonstrate everything that exists? Doesn’t everyone on
here
already know
we
can’t prove that no
gods exist beyond
any doubt ?

@mattyrayfray nothing exists outside the natural world. There is nothing but that which we can perceive. I know that beyond any doubt, I do not need proof of that which does not and can not exist. It is on the person who claims something does exist to provide hard evidence (proof) that it does. I am not making other claim than what I see and can perceive with my five senses is sufficient to understand the Universe.

@bobhoff59 You can’t perceive dark matter with your five senses. Yet it seems to exist. Your hard empiricism and naturalism is easily being shut out by modern science itself.

@bobhoff59 we have to posit theoretical entities all the time—— and we believe fully that they exist. What entities are there that for some reason we haven’t speculated on or simply do not interact with us? It would be almost quite literally another plane of
existence. Any ontological claim that there’s only what we can see is foolish. youre making a knowledge claim that we can only know what it natural and appears to us—— fun fact,
our abilities to know may be superceded by metaphysical realities.

@mattyrayfray wrong if I can prove it with science I have perceived it with my senses because my eyes have seen and my ears have heard that evidence. This is not hard stuff.

@bobhoff59 No offense but I don't think you have any idea. We can't directly experience ---through our empirical senses-- something like,,,, say, microwaves, yes??? Imagine this--- something like microwaves exists, it doesn't interact with us in any reasonable way,,, or it only exists on a quantum level on the fringes of the universe---- we couldn't know about it. What if something exists so small it simply becomes impossible for us to actually discover? You're not understanding your own (and humanity's own) limitations.

@mattyrayfray We actually can experience the affects of the microwaves through our senses. We know it because science predicted them, tests were developed to prove them, and application, radar, communications and ovens were developed to harness their capabilities. That is what I mean when say I can say through empirical evidence that microwaves exist. It is also how I can say magnetism exist, ultraviolet light exists, electrons and protons exist etc, etc, etc. If it can not be measured then it does not matter and therefore for all practical purposes does not exist.

@bobhoff59 >>> for all
practical purposes. You just lost the argument. The practical expierential usefulness of something doesn’t determine its ontic truth. Get cucked. Normally I’d just agree with you here bc that’s all that really matters but since you came t my comment i wanted to wipe ur bad philosophy. If you can’t see that u pissed the metaphysical
bed here then I’ll have to get y’all ass a tutor.

>>> Also notice i am meming, plz do not take trash talk seriously

@mattyrayfray Don't worry I have thick skin and I also am very confident that my point is not only on solid ground but also absolutely correct. I never said things had to be useful, I was simply pointing out that microwaves were. Also, if something can never ever been measured, just like god can never ever be measured then it no more exists then god exists.

His cat won't.

Me too. And 8-lane freeways too.