The Bible - I find the lack of respect people in this room give to the Bible disturbing. Its early mans attempt to make sense of life, and it offers so much good advice. I am an atheist but I respect the Bible.
Here's a quote from the Bible - Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails... ~ 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a [NIV]
How can you be against that?
I agree with you that the fault does lie with the bible itself. It's a collection of writings, spanning a thousand years, that provide insight into ancient man's attempt to figure out his place in the cosmos. And while the doctrine it has spanned is nutso sometimes, yes, like other religions' texts there is certainly wisdom to be found in the Bible as well.
It's said that even the smallest child has a lesson for the wisest sage. And so, the wise will find wisdom in all of its hiding places.
It is a product of its time. It is not a science book, nor is it very reliable history book. It is a library of prose, poetry, law, and as you note, ancient people trying to make sense of what they experienced. There is much about it that is barbaric; the times were barbaric. There is much about it that is beautiful, too. The same can be said of nature - it is both cruel and lovely. It needs to be read, not as a guidebook for life, nor in scorn. It should be read as literature.
Just my opinion.
Of course there is alot of BS in the Bible, but there is good advice also. The book is deeply rooted in our culture and has given many comfort. Life can be cold and cruel, and if the Bible helps people deal with their pain it does deserve respect.
There are many good books that have been banned for the sake of a single sentence or paragraph, books that are great literature and the bible by comparison is a homicidal, genocidal, misogynistic and barbaric train wreck of a cobbled together collection of myths and fables. The bible does not deserve respect as a literary work or as a moral guidebook. That our western culture is deeply rooted in this book is no defense of it, our culture was deeply rooted in slavery until a little over a century ago, should slavery be respected? Your position that the bible is full of comforting lies that give people false comfort is equally indefensible as it does more harm than good and in fact encourages people to put off living today for an imaginary heaven that will never come. It robs people of their real life, the only one they can be proven to have for the sake of a pipe dream. No sir, this book of yours does not deserve respect, it shouldn't be burned but it should be kept as an example of deceit and superstition and ignorance, to be a warning against such beliefs.
@Surfpirate
"... it does more harm than good..."
Is that a scientific fact, or just a belief you hold?
@skado Historic observation, everywhere that religion has gone in the world it has brought pain and suffering and death. The observations bear out the hypothesis.
@Surfpirate
Are you saying it has never brought comfort to anyone or helped them constrain their destructive potential?
@skado I'm sure Hitler liked kittens and rainbows as well, doesn't change what he was or bring back the millions that died because of him. In comparison with the bible and the church, Hitler was a rank amateur.
@Surfpirate
The wars are pretty visible and to some extent quantifiable, at least in approximate number dead, but it's hard to see how the other side would ever be quantifiable... how many individuals in, say the last two thousand years for example, didn't commit a crime or murder someone because of religious conviction or fear of Hell? How much general angst has been removed from society at large over the years because countless individuals found solace in their faith? 80% of the world population claims some degree of religious faith. How do you claim to know what life would be like on this planet if that comfort was suddenly taken away from all those otherwise silent and generally well behaved individuals? Seems impossible to know for sure. Also seems totally unlikely to me that wars would suddenly end after religion was removed from the equation. Then what would we blame it on?
@gater I said that the bible shouldn't be burnt but instead kept as a warning to future generations. Did someone else suggest a book burning? That's a terrible idea.
@gater, @skado So did I just hear you correctly? Did you just say that the oppression of religious dogma has kept people from committing crimes they might otherwise have committed out of fear of hellfire and damnation and you think this is a good thing? Furthermore, did you just say that the empty comfort people derived from this massive lie against human potential and growth as a species is also a good thing?
I would suggest that freedom and democracy came about in spite of religion and that the power of kings and other despots is legitimized by religion. One has to wonder how much humans might have advanced as a species without the oppression of religious dogma. Religion is not a positive force in society, it has been shown that Atheists are at least as moral as Theists and they do so without the fear of a sky daddy raining down hellfire on them it they don't act morally. How can Theists even claim to have the moral high ground when they have to be coerced by threat of eternal damnation to behave in a civilized manner?
@Surfpirate You seem to equate religion with the Bible - the Bible is just a book - a religion is how they interpret it. Some were/are good - some bad.
@Surfpirate
No, if you’re interested, you can go back and see there is a difference between what I said and your interpretation of it.
@gater the book is the instruction manual for the religion, you can interpret it anyway you want but it is still the same toxic message
I respect your post and believe that there should be an alternative site called 'atheist.com' for people who want to diss anything questioning religion. I'm new on here but feel as though there are a lot of atheists on here who are not skeptical at all. And I believe that skepticism is what being an agnostic is all about.
Thank you - and welcome
Agnostic and atheist are not the same thing. I may be hit with what you call 'hard lessons' but I just see these comments as being closed minded. Why can't you have open conversations about religion in a site that is specifically about religious (or lack thereof) ideologies?
@DeeTee Exploring the Bible is the opposite of being closed minded. Calling someone a troll for wanting to explore the Bible is being closed minded. And telling me I'm going to be hit with some hard lessons just because I told someone I respected their post wanting to have an open discussion about a religious topic is just silly.
@Hihi no ones calling him a troll for wanting to explore the bible. We're pointing out that he's a theist as evidenced by his demand that we respect that damned book.
...respect? The same book that endorses slavery, stoning to death children for bein unruly, being gay. SLAVERY... No, no respect here. I would recommend a book, 101 myths of the buy bull....umm, bible. It breaks down it's Egyptian origins, and how it's changed into Judea-xtianity. In fact, if you dig deep enough, you'll find the answer to why in genesis god is referred in plurality... it's NOT father, son, holy spirit trio one thinks. No thank you... a million nice quotes will never make up for a single biblical massacre...you know, like wiping the face of the earth clean.... it's the WHOLE book not the 'cherry picked verses that is so contemptible
The Bible is folk lore writ down by scribes working for the authorities. Like all folk lore it does contain truths but many more myths . Heaven forbid folks should think for themselves. They are just asked to accept these stories. The Old Testament in particular contain stories of untold violence mainly to alien tribes and women. How can anyone respect such stories? Just think of the countless violence done to humans in the name of the Bible.
Everything has pros and cons. The Bible is the sheep herders guild to the Universe . That makes it more cons than pros. Just study the behavior of the Christian. I like Jesus as a myth , it's the Christians I don't like.
I can incorporate any good idea from anywhere into my life. Christian is soul sucking trap you prepare your whole life for this extreme happiness with the white man in the sky. What happens if God is really a frog?
I do appreciate the fact that many people have suffered terribly at the hands of religious fanatics and corrupt power, so I understand how they might make negative associations with all things "religion", and I think one of the stated aims of this site is to give that particular group a place to express their related feelings and experiences openly, but that hasn't been my personal experience, so I don't have any problem cherry-picking in the Bible, because I know it was all cherry-planted to start with, and I'm no more inclined to see an inanimate object as totally evil than totally good. Wisdom is wisdom, wherever you find it, and certainty about anything is not a skeptic's friend.
I know of very few people who are against "that."
What I have come to find disturbing is the demand for respect that the religious demand towards their holy books, the bible included. If the bible cannot withstand constructive criticism, then perhaps it isn't all it's cracked itself up to be.
This is just my opinion
I understand that you want people to appreciate the value of a book that is as old as The Bible. I also agree that it has been read by countless people that have found it a source of knowledge and a guide to live by. But, while it is not as old, one could also say that about Mein Kampf.I think that you might receive a better response to your complaint from a group that isn't called Agnostic.com.
The Bible has some good bits and some bad bits. We can all pick and choose the bits we like. I love the King James translation because i was brought up with it and for me there is a lot of poetry in it. But we don't have to 'respect' it in any way. It is just a book, written by people.