Hi all.Im talking to this theist about you can't have morality without god.He says the only place you get objective morality is from god.If I try and quote the in immorality of the bible he says unless I agree with objective morality coming from god I can't quote immorality of the bible because good ,bad,evil,logic,right,wrong are objective morals and only comes from god.I need help to get out of this.Any takers.Thanks
Since there is no god, the conversation is an insanity. And the bible was written by stupendously ignorant men, so quoting the bible is another insanity.
I prefer to believe that morality is possible because there is no god.
You could ask this person if it is good only because God wills it, or if God wills it because it is good.
If it's the second then you already have objective morality before God even comes into the picture.
If it's the first then killing babies would be good if God so willed it, so if all morality is just following the instructions of God then it cannot be objective.
So objective morality can only exist independently of God.
Q.E.D.
He is right, the only way you can have objective morality is with a god. For me morality is both interesting and important, however, it is never objective, instead it is always subjective. It is subject to science. Here is a good argument against objective morality.
For me, whilst science doesn't tell us everything, it is the only thing that can tell us anything at all. Without science there is no morality. So just explain to this person that you can point out immorality in the bible based upon an open minded, secular, humanist and scientific approach to morality.
If, “He says the only place you get objective morality is from god” - then we know his entire premise is wrong. That leaves him fooling himself, not us, having acquired our morals from those we trusted and who cared enough to share theirs. Don’t let him set false guidelines, then claim you’ve not met them. He’s got the splaining to do - not you
You first have to agree on what morality is, then you have to agree on how one can decide whether an action is moral or not.
Personally I base my morality on wellbeing and the good of society. Would I want this done to me? If he says that morality only comes from his god, then he is amoral and cannot make moral judgements, because he must agree that the actions of his god are moral.
If he agrees that morality is based on the wellbeing of the individual and society, then there is no god needed.