Question (mostly for guys). To what extent is your perception of female beauty dictated by media images, do you think? Or vice versa?
The Venus of Willendorf (sometimes my FB profile pic) was presumably considered beautiful 30,000 years ago. The more I look at her, get used to her, the more I like her. Is physical beauty as just a matter of media-induced expectation? I mean I know that's in line with current thinking, but do you actually believe it?
So, I see women 30,000 years ago looked much like they do today! How did that happen without McDonalds, Coke and chocolate? Nope, at 68 I've developed my own ideas of female beauty and they have nothing to do with media images. Most of it cannot be captured with a camera.
I agree whole heartedly !
I'ld play with the idea that back then the statue represented the medias ideal of what a woman should be. Starving waifs were everywhere, a woman who could afford to eat enough and not work so hard physically to be in that shape was rare.
Now, eating well enough to avoid sugars, fats and modified corn starch, not to mention to have the leisure to have a personal trainer and gym fees? That is beyond many peoples easy reach.
@Faithless1 Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse. Back then people decades younger than you or I were considered elders.
How did you get my nudes!? Lol
I retain a small team of experts for such tasks.
Although I think there's an element of media influence in perceptions of beauty, if it were as powerful as some make it seem then there would be almost no interest in larger, more full-figured women today. And yet there are many men who enjoy a more Rubenesque woman. Where media's influence seems to lie more, however, is in people's willingness to admit what they like — sort of a collective peer pressure resulting in a conformist mindset. Most people are afraid to go against the grain. /2¢
Not at all thankfully.. I love curvy girls..find it difficult to be physically attracted to the skinny model type...no way. It's just the way I'm wired. Love buxom girls with big boobs..small or medium waist, curvy bum and nice shapely (non-skinny) legs.
Personality is a different kettle of fish....
No affect on me. For me beauty is a combination of an appealing look, which is never the same for me, personality, and the way they carry themselves. It is the whole package. I may see someone across the room and find them appealing, but a conversation can turn that off in a minute.
A body should be functional. A body with excessive, useless weight is not as able to walk, run, swim, etc.
Also, fat holds toxins which enter the vital organs. This is not healthy.
Our typical American diet is not conducive to a healthy body. One must take matters upon oneself.
My weight has varied 5% or so, and I know how much better I feel and how much more I enjoy life without excess weight.
I do not find stick-thin figures attractive. I do think every person will enjoy life more without a lot of extra weight to carry everywhere. It negatively affects all aspect of one's life.
Well stated.
@Mitch07102 Thanks dood
None of us can completely separate ourselves from our societal norms. Having said that the longer I'm alive the more I understand that so many different women are attractive in so many different ways. The only time I find someone unattractive is when they say or act truly repulsive. A woman I know who would be considered extremely pretty said something racist which radiated a deep down ugly that frightened me. How someone acts and thinks is more important to me now more than ever. On a lighter note:
Mine is very dictated by past experiences. The media seems to indicate that I should be looking for a talish athletic blonde with large breasts and a flat stomach, been there done that it was sort of fun, but little pixy girls (who are also media mandated I suppose) are far more compelling to me.
I have also had relationships with ladies built like the statue above (looks again) or larger, and have run into some mechanical problems. Missionary position sex, when a belly is so much in the way that there is limited clitioral stimulation looses an aspect (for all of us who derive pleasure from our partners experience) Having them on a couch with their hips over the armrest lets gravity deal with some of that, as can holding the belly out of the way with both hands. Both approaches limit options.
I am simply not strong enough to move a lover who weighs almost twice as much as I do, in the same ways that I can someone who is lighter than me. Being able to grab someone by one or both ankles and hold them at exactly the right height and adjust that minutely so that penetration gets an amazing response? Easy enough for a fit lad with a lean lass, far more troublesome when just positioning yourself to carry the load takes a lot of your attention and limits your own movement.
I would love to take the attitude that size doesn't matter, and honestly eyes, intelligence, personality, and attitude count for a lot.
Which is the point I'll conclude on. In my opinion the negative impact of the media is more on the lady in questions self esteem than on my approach. As the Chilians at least of the spanish speakers say Osso!(sp?) Nothing for me as good as a lass looking into my eyes, completely confident that yes, of all things in the world right now it is her that I want.
@Faithless1 Real things and real people
@Faithless1 mis quoted, but close enough. Only two quotes in response "Speak, demand, we'll answer" and "only the facts 'mam"
I do not believe it. I believe it's all perception and perspective. Weak minds will be influenced by media, but we grow up, we learn to see deeper. For me it's in a womans attitude.
Our views of beauty are highly influenced by what we are taught. How can I prove it? Look at each society, and you'll find they share similar views. In those days, reproduction was so important they emphasized those aspects of life. When famine were common, extra weight insured survival and the ability to feed an infant, along with large healthy breasts.
The long term effects of obesity didn't show up in their short lifespans.
Personally, because I am into Vegan fitness and health, I am especially attracted to woman that seriously work out, I find muscles sexy, and such. But that's my taste. In reality, that only gets you through the intro of a relationship, in the long run, looks mean nothing, every human body is beautiful if the person is a compassionate loving soul.
Images of female beauty are certainly marketed, and as noted tastes and trends are ever evolving. I have found over the years that instant attraction is not alway a good indicator and that the old saying "Beauty is only skin deep" is true to a large extent. Will say that for me natural remains the best, be what you are, first and foremost.
She might have been considered beautiful in certain ways, but I doubt if she was much desired by young men. A fat woman can survive famine better, but slenderness projects youth, energy and agility.
Perhaps media portrayals reflect popular opinion rather than the other way around. I was a lusty young buck before television, and my preference was for basically slender girls with a thin padding of fat.
@Faithless1 In art, it is sometimes argued that a face is the key point of featuring human identity, and that lacking a face symbolizes that this statue isn’t a representation of a single person, but rather of the reproductive and child rearing aspects of women in general. With the emphasis on the breasts and pubic area, it seems likely that the Venus of Willendorf had a function that related to fertility. In contrast, the sculptor placed scant attention on the non-reproductive parts of her body, as though those parts are irrelevant, reinforcing the notion of it being representative of a state of being, rather than an individual being.
@Faithless1 Except she was discovered at an Upper Paleolithic site (ca. 50,000-10,000 BCE), not Meso/Neolithic (ca. 10,000-3000 BCE). Also, the proportions are clearly exaggerated, as the arms are understated and folded across the massive breasts, indicating certain parts of the anatomy were unimportant to the sculptor. Again, this lends itself to "representative" art more so than actual imagery. I'm entirely uncertain what to make of your closing statement in the comment above, as it actually sounds troll-ish.
@Faithless1 The part where you said "made a whole lot of women feel bad about their skinny selves" Just sounded a bit insensitive is all. As for NotAndrew, he is also "Not Bright" "Not Worthy" and "Not Visible" as I blocked him. I always support women when I see misogynists acting as though every thread they encounter is there just for their own expression. My regret is that more men, especially those who claim to be allies, don't step up and do the same.
No I don't believe it. I have always had personal preferences that have nothing to do with what is trendy.
I am sure I am skewed by media, etc... it seems every few months there is an article showing what body proportions males of different countries prefer. So, clearly there is some outside bias/effect.
But...
I will NEVER forget an incident when I was 14. I was up early tagging along with a friend who was delivering Sunday morning papers. When we got to one of the houses, the owner had told my friend if he forgot to leave money out for the paper, to knock. My friend and I stood on the porch, and he grimaced as he knocked at 0710 or so on a Sunday morning...
And the daughter answered the door...
She was one year younger than us. We had both seen her in a bikini at the neighborhood swimming pool all of this summer. But now she was wearing a large oversized t-shirt that came down JUST FAR ENOUGH for us to imagine that maybe, just maybe, there was nothing on underneath!!! She handed him the money her dad had forgotten to leave out. Squinting sleep swollen eyes peering out from under her perfectly tussled 'bed-head' hair. She saw our shocked and leering male faces and gave us a slight "I know everything you're thinking" smirk as she closed the door.
The two of us didn't say a word for the next 4 or 5 minutes. And then we agreed on how perfect of a vision she had been, and how bizarre it was that she had looked so 'right', when we had seen her so many other times before.
Societal norms of the day be damned!!! This girl we both had seen at her best had just crushed us at what many women would consider their worst. No hair or makeup done, no figure extenuating attire... she was a mess in a white boxy rumpled shirt. Yet I am sure my paperboy friend still recalls that moment from our youth as I do today.
It was hardwired in at a genetic level by some caveman ancestors preference I assume!!!
Oh, I should also note I am aware my eyes/brain/desires have changed as I have grown older!!!
I look for a good heart. That is all.
I recently heard that the longer you know someone, and the more you love them, the more beautiful they become.
I wonder about this quite a bit, recently, actually. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm sure the social expectations at least play a part at some level. Unfortunately, I'm at the stage of questioning where I don't even know yet how to phrase the question, so I don't think I can answer...
I don't know. I believe media is a just a way of getting information. Sure there may be maniacs but I believe you can't get the answer to your question unless you ask many questions with clarity. Think of this whom would you find attractive a young athletic model guy or a fat farting old guy?
To an extent is has to influence us; to deny that is disingenuous. We are all influenced by what we see repeatedly.
Having said that, for this guy yes I certainly like attractive as I define it (think athletic, like say a CrossFit-er) but by itself that means little. Intellect, kindness, refinement etc. is key. Dumb, loud, vulgar etc. can't be offset by physical appearance.