Do you believe it's unethical to eat meat?
What if someone has tried to be vegetarian or vegan, under the supervision of a dietician and became ill; would that change your opinion?
One can struggle with producing an ethical argument for killing animals yet animals kill each other to survive, with no ethical judgement.
Please provide any opinions you wish, for or against these arguments.
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82 comments (51 - 75)
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I don't think it's unethical, strictly from the standpoint of the fact that almost every living thing on the planet needs to consume another living thing to survive.
Sometimes, when I intellectualize what I'm doing when I'm eating a piece of chicken, it kind of weirds me out that I'm eating the flesh of something that used to be alive and walking about.
I think I would feel better about this if I were eating vegan, but I've tried the occasional vegan meal, and haven't found anything really appealing about it yet. Although I know from a scientific standpoint, a plant based diet would probably be more healthy.
I think a some of the ethical issues around eating meat come down to the value people place on the various forms of life we encounter. And because plants don't seem to have the same life awareness as a cow or a chicken, it may be deemed more ethical to eat the plant versus the animal.
JeezumsCripes
Level 5
June 18, 2018
1
everything on this planet has a finiteness to it so in the words of hillary clinton, "what difference does it make?"
plants scream, actually. i think americans in particular eat too much meat but that doesn't mean one would be healthier eating NO animal products. i think we were meant to be the omnivores we are. that doesn't mean we have to eat veal, or imprisoned chickens. everyone wants to make things just black and white. very little in life is black and white.
g
The only dilemma in my opinion would be whether to eat a lamp chop with a hamburger during the same meal. I'm not sure if this decision is an ethical one in any way but my point is that I'm feeling excited about firing up my grill right about now.
SamHarrisFan
Level 6
June 18, 2018
1
Nope. Survival of the fittest has always been paramount.
cvccosplay
Level 6
June 18, 2018
1
In order to live another animal(s) must die. I believe strongly that a vegan diet is unhealthy. No known culture anywhere in history did not eat animal protein and fat.
Mitch07102
Level 8
June 18, 2018
1
Gita:
Believe? Not true. Many cultures are vegetarian - India, Buddhists etc. A ‘belief’ is just that; it’s not a fact.
Not quite correct. See The Heretic's Feast: A History of Vegetarianism by Colin Spencer. It identifies the vegetarian cultures of Ancient India and Ancient Greece. Vegetarianism disappears in Europe during late antiquity around C6th with the Fall and Christianisation of the Roman Empire.
Plus a few vegetarian n'er do wells from the past who didn't make the Big Time due to their vegetarianism. - Ovid, Leonardo da Vinci, Sir Thomas More, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Leo Tolstoy, George Bernard Shaw. Having said that, so famously was Adolf Hitler.
@Gita I am referring to the populations we evolved from before the advent of agriculture 10K years ago. This is a blip in evolutionary time. We evolved eating meat. I get the moral argument, and to some degree it is powerful but I think, fatally flawed. Growing crops kills animals too-insects, birds, displaced small animals etc. We could go on but the key point is trying to be vegan or vegetarian for health reasons says you believe you are smarter than evolution.
You aren't.
@Gita, @Geoffrey51 Well said.
Gita:
@Mitch07102 you’re most welcome to your argument and opinions - my mind isn’t about to change anytime soon.
@Gita WHich I respect. For your health, I hope you continue to keep an open mind regarding the healthfulness, or not, of a vegan diet.
Gita:
@Mitch07102 I try to not give myself so much importance.
I have had times in my life as a vegetarian. I can't kill.
I am trying to transition away form meat and it has been some time now since I have bought any.
I have 3 pet chickens so eat eggs, also eat honey and drink milk though have been working on coconut and other nut milk, hate soy.
Have decided I am probably a flexitarian, won't go into overload if at a friends place but will just try and eliminate meat from my place. I am an ecologist, predators are part of the natural order, I am more than content for this carcase to be consumed, I would prefer it. But the livestock industries are cruel. The animals have no life.
Which would we rather be? A gazelle living free until one day eaten by a lion or some prro farm animal living its life in a pen, no space, no nothing?
Then there is the environmental issue, the environmental costs of eating meat.
So where I sit, eating meat is not unethical, but meat production is.
I am a hypocrite.
Rugglesby
Level 8
June 18, 2018
1
I find it okay but wish our animals to be raised happy and humanely, and treated with respect. I thank the animal for feeding me, even though they won't know I am appreciative.
LadyAlyxandrea
Level 8
June 18, 2018
1
So the animal went to slaughter willingly?
Sure. Just like the antelope willingly sacrifices itself to the lion. Or the mouse to the snake. You know, some people physically cannot live on a vegan or vegetarian diet, and lording your superior morality and guilting and shaming is no better than the people who shove religion on others. "Youre an immoral monster for not believing in god" is not much different than "you're an immoral monster for not being vegetarian"
My general answer is NO. However I will not eat veal, foie gras and while I've had octopus etc and love it... feel bad when I have it because I love cephalopods and it just seems unnecessary to me. It's rubbery anyway most of the time & I have the feeling ppl eat it just to say they did.
There are just too damned many ppl on this planet. Having had knock down drag out interpersonal disasters with vegetarians & vegans I tread cautiously around them IRL and would probably not be ever seriously, willingly involved with one unless they weren't militant about it, because my daughter CANNOT have 1/2 the "staples" in the GD diet.
Qualia
Level 8
June 18, 2018
1
Animals do a lot of things with no ethical judgement. Does this mean ethics are of no value?
JoshPyburn
Level 1
Oct 23, 2018
0
I think we need to have more grass fed slaughter as grass fed meat is better for you anyway but as a lifelong cattle rancher I fully support eating meat especially beef as they are one of the few animals who can convert grass and forages to something we can eat. A lot of the grassland is unsuitable for farming as it is to rough and prone to erosion. Without utilizing cattle we have no way of converting this grass from this marginal land into something we humans can eat and millions would starve.
Trajan61
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
0
Imho, the main question of whether or not eating meat iis ethical or not depends on whether or not the animal is self aware, can demostrate intelligence or displays emotional responses to actions affecting itself or its environment. If it is capable of these things, then imho it is not ethical to eat them. However, even animals who do not meet this standard deserve to be raised, handled and dispatched in a humane ethical manner. If they are not, then it is unethical to eat these lower creatures as well.
kashmere71
Level 4
Oct 5, 2018
0
I don’t think any animal whether farmed or wild wants to die or anything that’s alive for that matter. So it is unethical but the alternative is your own death. So I’ll eat meat and vegetables without hesitation.
Nardi
Level 7
Oct 4, 2018
0
@Gooniesnvrdie I don't care about what you do and don't eat it's your body. But something still had to die for you to live. Vegans make me laugh.
@Gooniesnvrdie lol
Your argument is rather silly, but it's also erroneous. You'll kill fewer plants by eating them directly rather than processing them through animals first. For instance, my 4 smallish goats eat about a bale of alfalfa a week. The bales weigh about 85 pounds. They also consume several pounds of grain & pellets a week. Now IF I killed them & butchered them today I'd get probably 30 to 40 pounds of meat from each. Maybe the weight of 2 weeks of their feed, but they had to eat that much food EVERY week for a whole year or longer. Most of it turned into poop, not meat! If the land that was used to grow their feed was used to grow food for humans instead, it would feed a lot more people than the 4 little goats' bodies, & a lot fewer plants would be killed.
Have you ever heard of fruitarians? They only eat what plants give up willingly, like tree nuts & fruits. I don't know if the consider the seeds of annual plants who have gone through their natural life cycles & died fair game. But I don't think there are many fruitarians...
Humans were designed to eat meat. That is why we have incisor teeth.
dbass27
Level 4
June 18, 2018
0
I'll argue with a picture:
Humans also have appendix's, tonsils ' and a few other parts we either no longer need nor use. We also have a brain and can weigh the cost of our habits.
@Gareth Studies have shown that meat was often scarce (in winter times) and the primary diet came from gathered plant material. An article in the Smithsonian about a Roman gladiator arena in Austria showed that the diet of the gladiators was primarily Barley and Beans. Meat required too much energy to digest and could be a matter of life and death.
@JackPedigo also the idea of cooking food to make it more digestible especially meat resulted in the human brain becoming more evolved.
Etre:
@squiggy_70 that is what is taught but now being debated.
Etre:
@squiggy_70, @JackPedigo i think tonsils are important and should not be removed...
Etre:
Our insicor teeth are not true canine, true canine are long round sharp point for puncturing.
@squiggy_70 Since our meat intake has gone way up but it seems our brain power has gone the other way.
People become ill for many reasons so the odds are that some who become vegetarians or who have always been vegetarians will become ill at some point. I am sure that research would show that he or she would be much less likely to become ill while adhering to a vegetarian/vegan diet but genes and other environmental circumstances will inevitably take their toll.
Killing and eating animals is something that most other animals do to survive. It might simply be a matter of evolution, cognitive development, and moral development that created vegetarians in our closest evolutionary relatives. I hope someday all humans will have developed -cognitively and morally- enough to stop killing and consuming other animals. That would go a long way to solve our exploding medical crisis as well as allowing more people to maintain some level of attractiveness into adulthood.
msimpson9agn
Level 5
June 18, 2018
0
The people on record, who have lived the longest, eat meat.
@Athena I would seriously question any records that suggest that meat eaters live longer or healthier lives than vegetarians. Even if they actually live longer, they are probably living as fat people with clogged arteries and taking a ton of drugs at great expense to society and that is not better than the alternative. There is a plethora of evidence and educational opportunities that might enlighten you but you will have to actively look for it because the food and drug industries have a lot invested in keeping us ignorant in this matter. Earthlings, Forks over Knives, Chasing Extinction, and Cowspiracy are the titles of DVDs that might get you started.
@msimpson9agn
It's a fact. The people who are currently alive, who are the oldest in the world, eat meat. They are not overweight.
I've done much research and this is flawed science you're citing. There are many factors which lead to clogged arteries and obesity.
I know many overweight vegetarians and vegans and there are other contributors to this. It's not because they are vegetarians or that they should eat meat. Nor do meat eaters become obese for the reason that they consume it.
I eat a lot of meat and am in great health. I never struggle with weight and know of many people who are similar. You are imposing a personal bias that is affecting your ability to see the facts. I tried a vegetarian diet under the supervision of a dietician and became gravely ill.
Vegetarianism is a religion to some people. Interesting.
@Athena Please go to your library and check out these DVDs: Earthlings, Forks over Knives, Chasing Extinction, and Cowspiracy. I am sure that there are many more available. I don't think that you could possibly still feel the same way after exposing yourself to this information. I recommend that you watch them more than once.
@Athena Vegetarianism a religion? Where is this coming from?
@msimpson9agn
When people are preaching that it is the only way and the right way, and not basing it on scientific facts, then it looks like religion.
Yes.
@msimpson9agn
Have seen them all.
I would like to change growth to development. So there!!
Boatsailor
Level 5
June 18, 2018
0
Enjoy being online again!
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