I need light shed on the interactions of white and black people. When I was younger before I met my sister from another mother, neither black people or white people fucked with me. I was too "white" for the black people and actually black for the white people. And in all honesty the black people were much more open for their disdain of my "white" behavior. When I went to college, I went to a school located in the "hood." North Philadelphia. The local, black non-students showed me more love than I ever experienced. I didn't act different and still a jab here and there but not enough that they didn't even want to hang out with me. So I summed up that the younger black people I interacted with were just immature. But here's the thing. The white people, still don't fuck with me. I pretty much get along with anyone around my age but the older white people, damn. My own white "parents" joined in the racial teasing; liked to compare my skin to that of mud and laugh about it. Over the past 6 months I have lived in the hood of West Palm Beach, Florida, after living in the all-white suburbs under my "parents" suggestion, mostly black people, a lot of islanders, and very few Spaniards. There has been so much love surrounding me here, it has been phenomenal. I have friends across races but I cannot lie that the comfort of black people is real. Growing up with white parents who wanted me to assimilate completely to Caucasian culture was rough. Seriously, I was in figure skating and gymnastics and they were very turned off by my being muscular and wanted me to lose weight. It seems like to me white culture values frail, weak women. I'm not sure why and I absolutely do not understand it. I was shamed for my body structure. Shamed for being well-endowed.
It seems because white people, particularly the older, Christian ones, are not use to curves that if that is your natural body shape, they no longer see you as human but only as a sexual object. And once you are the sexual object if someone wants to use you as so then it is your fault for appearance. So anyways, now I struggle with this idea that majority of white people are the devil and majority of black people are love. As I think about this its sounds racist. I still am surprised every time a random white person feels comfortable asking me a question or starting small talk because I have had these experiences where white people were like "get away." So I ask, What is up with that? How would you feel if you were in my shoes? Am I wrong for thinking white people innately have a problem with me? I really need some light shed on this. Very confused.
I can't judge whether you are right or wrong for what you think but I will say this: If I were you, I wouldn't give one good gawd damn what anyone else thinks. FYI, I am a Caucasian female, aged 56, and I don't have any interest at all in assimilating to white culture. Never have.
I've talked about this before but maybe you might realize you have friends here. My playmate when I was 5 was the boy next door who happened to be black. Butch and I would build teepees and play w trucks in a sandpit. His Mom and Dad were college professors and when we started 1st grade Butch was sent to a private school in Boston. A new family who had a boy our age moved in. His name was Carl and the family had moved from South Carolina. He was black also. I tried introducing Carl to Butch and Butch's mother freaked out. I couldn't understand why she wouldn't let them be friends with us. Things on the street got tense when I found out my parents were moving us to another part of town. I was 10 at the time. I learned about racism. My parents owned two houses for a year and a half. A black family wanted to buy our house but our neighbors did everything they could do to block it. To this day I get angry when I hear racial slurs-Anyone who discriminates vs anyone regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation or disability is a piece of shit to me-just like tRUMP. Welcome to our Freethinker community.
I don't know what to say exactly but maybe: you go girl or right on sister! Your points were stunning and I think i'm falling in love with you.
I am brown. Born and raised in NY(Long Island) in a white community that didn't treat me differently. Then 09/11 happened while I was at college and things changed.
As the news about the Las Vegas shooting was coming in, I was terrified. Then they announced the shooter was white and my blood pressure came down, my pulse slowed and I could relax. The amount of hate and thinly veiled intimidation I get whenever a brown person kills someone is terrifying. I got called a racist for expressing my relief. I feel like I need to get over my own skin color, because it affects me so much, but no one can tell me it's wrong or irrational to worry.
So whatever, I move on. I refer to 09/11 as the day I became brown. Before then I'd look down and see my hands playing with toys and typing on keyboards and whatever. Now I look down and I see brown hands. That is my experience. Don't let anyone discredit your experience to yourself.
I really wish I had something to say that would help you out. The truth is, I honestly don't understand racism. It makes no sense to me at all. I was raised by racists (in the North) and I didn't understand it when I was a kid. When I moved to the South, I didn't understand it any more as an adult either. I do, however, understand the concept of "white privilege" and I think it's disgusting. But what I do I know? I'm just a middle-aged white woman who is more prone to tell people to go eff themselves and walk away, than listen to their ignorance and bullshit.
Me a middle-aged latina that do the same... try to get along with real people not their color...or gender.... here all I found is a bunch of good people...
I'm an old fart and my marriage is inter-racial. I have been married 21 years and as yet have not heard any worrisome comments about my wife or daughter. Having said that I have observed incredible racism from people I thought were my friends over the last year and a half. Not about my family but others as if I am going to ignore it. I used to be happy thinking this country was on a path toward more tolerance but my goodness we've went back 30 years. It appears to me that the current political climate has brought out the absolute worst in people.
I hear you. I've had to give up friendships and contact with family members after finding out that they were harboring that shit within them.
I guess I'm glad to know who is and isn't with me but it hurts
I'm not racist. I'm Vietnamese, I like and talk to anyone of any race. Skin color means nothing to me, but how you treat people. I get looked at like I'm a sex object too. I'm not well endowed, but I'm petite and I workout. My adoptive parents are white. The whole family is.
Whoa. We are probably total opposites physically but to hear you experienced that objectivity as well speaks to the bigger issue. Honestly as an adult its the sickness of the world. However it started for me at the start of growing breasts at 9 and having bigger breasts than my adoptive mother by 12. Since I was so young, I wasn't allowed to wear a bra for the longest time because I was too "young." Talk about uncomfortable! Where does this attitude stem from that the very fact of female existence means we have have invited men to do with us as they want? Why does our society push female modesty instead of male self-control?
I'm a very small size up on top. It's embarrassing. Ever since I lost 50lbs, I lost a lot up on my chest. It sucks. I don't dress provocatively. I cover up. One, because it's Winter and cold out, and two, I get nervous when I wear shorts. Since I just got my legs all nice and muscular, I will show it off this summer.
No bras would be hard. Some males need sexual harassment classes.
You sound like a well-educated woman with whom I could potentially become friends. I really don't understand in this day and age (at least in my community) how one's skin colour makes any difference at all. Wouldn't it be nice if the US could respect and appreciate all races like we do here (for the most part) in Northern Alberta.
I have always been the opposite of "racist": I am drawn to people not like me, fascinated maybe even, want to get to know them, see things from their perspective, learn from them, etc. Race and disability are some of the most obvious ways I can tell when someone is "not like me", but this applies to everything: politics, religion, nationality, language, anything. The more different, the more exciting, because there's more I could learn.
Had we been little girls in gymnastics together, I would have wanted to be your friend, ESPECIALLY if others were being mean to you. I would have wanted you to feel comfortable and accepted and able to express yourself around me.
If we bumped into each other in line at the the grocery store today, I would try (without being obvious or creepy about it) to demonstrate that my whiteness and your blackness has no impact on the way I feel about you.
Even though that'sa lie. My whiteness and your blackness means there's a whole lot of personal and cultural baggage that could be there, but neither of us has to let it influence us.
How do you know I'm not a racist? Or afraid of you?
How do I know you're not afraid of me? Or carrying a grudge against whites in general?
You can't know, but you can start to sense these things in the first few seconds of interaction through eye contact, body language, tone, etc. So I look people in the eye and act naturally, doing and saying whatever feels natural for me in the moment.
Of course with me there's the little undercurrent of "don't be a stupid fan girl, don't fetishize them, don't ask a bunch of questions, just be cool" because I'm such a weirdo.
I don't like it when anyone prejudges anyone else, and I'd rather not see it happen, but I'm not going to tell anyone who's been marginalized they need to fix their thinking about the people who share an identity with their abusers.
When raped women say they can't trust men, it's not my place to tell them they need to change.
When LGBTQ peeps say they can't trust church folk, it's not my place to tell them they're being judgmental.
When blacks say they hate whites, it's not my place to say that's wrong.
It makes me sad, and I wish it wasn't so, but I'm no one 's therapist. It's not my business if people have disordered ideas. And in the case of people who have been abused or marginalized, I'm not sure it's entirely disordered. I think it might be part of a natural arc that may or may not involve recovery.
And if a person never recovers? continues to prejudge reflexively? Sad, but not my business. I would never tell you the way you feel is wrong.
My job is just to look you in the eye and be nice when we bump into each other at the grocery store. And if I like your scarf, buckle up...
My thoughts during every conversation :] "Of course with me there's the little undercurrent of "don't be a stupid fan girl, don't fetishize them, don't ask a bunch of questions, just be cool" because I'm such a weirdo." Thank you for sharing. I definitely feel like body language says a lot on whether a person is comfortable talking with me. However I also think once I get it in my head its hard to let go. Everything you said interests me too. I do think we have different experiences because of our skin but I'm starting to feel the real separator is the experience we have in an urban setting vs a suburban setting. It just so happens the two keep majorly one race.
@clea: I grew up in northern Minnesota (white as snow) and moved to coastal Georgia at age 16. HUGE change. Like a different planet.
Fun memory: summer school before my junior year in GA (I'd had mono and fell behind), reading "A Raisin in the Sun". My first experience with GA kids. They were all nice to me, but I couldn't understand bwhy they giggled every time I said "cracker". It was confusing. I was a drama nerd, so I was really trying to do a good job with my performance. I was doing well, I thought.
I had no idea how funny it was for them to hear a nerdy white girl say "cracker" over and over in her nerdy white girl voice like she's trying to win an Oscar. Good times.
I'm sorry your experiences have left you with such feelings. But careful not to generalize too much - as people are all different in their attitudes, and you certainly can't predict it by skin color, or age, or religion.
For instance - if we were in a social setting, you'd see me as an "older white woman" - when in fact, my Grandmother was very black. Also, having been raised in NYC and exposed to just about every type human - I have no issues with mingling with anyone of any flavor . Hope you meet enough people with differing, and more welcoming behaviors.
im mexican . and peraonally ive gotten hate against blacks and my own kind because i am on the " white mans side ". where always gonna get more live from our race . thats just how it gos . but frankly ive always gotten more love from whites . mexicans have fucked with me because i act " white " and dress and act it. i don't try and be white i just be myself and i guess yes its like a white boy. idgaf . there a big kinda almost race war goin on amongst blacks and whites. ive heard the black side of things and ive heard what white people are complaining about. one thing i might add is they never taught us in school but the whole slavery thing was actually started by black people. hard to believe i know. but africans gave there very own people to the whites and said make them slaves in your country . thats how it started . i feel many people hold that grudge againat whites till today . i feel thats wrong. the white people of today had nothing to do wit that. i shure wouldnt want people judging me bc of my ancestors actions. i feel whites of today are stereo typed . people act liek all whites are raceist. most arent . theres r certaint whites that are raceist same as blacks. we really can't judge a whole race and use the stereo types and say all whites are rich and raceist or blacks are all comiting crimes and thugs . there r both good.and bad blacks.and good and bad whites hun
That's how it was for me growing up. Until I became an adult and found my voice, black people didn't like me because of the way I acted. But when I really came to be myself, black people definitely point out I sound and act different but they don't make fun of me for it. Mostly just think I'm a hippie or something, lol. I have no hatred to the white people today for the mistakes of the white people yesterday but just because Africans sold Africans doesn't mean it didn't hurt our ancestors to be enslaved. In American culture it goes deeper though. Many people believed and actually some still believe that black people have limited intellectual ability. This is what is truly angering. End of the day, I agree with your conclusion. Good and bad people come in every age, gender, and race.
Hi - I am white and I live in northern Alberta where the only black people are usually recent immigrants from various countries in Africa. Why they moved here to freeze their asses off I'll never know however the most common reason is that there is no war in Canada and the local lifestyle and people are great. There are few if any black immigrants from the US (occasionally someone marries Canadian but that is quite rare). Most black Canadians are highly educated, probably because uneducated Africans cannot afford to move to Canada.
Why move to Canada? The cold of Canada (I lived a decade in Devils Lake North Dakota and have spent much time in Canada), is well worth your superior social and political world then the degrading political and social quagmire we now have in the states.
@NoMagicCookie I couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm sorry your parents treated you that way. That's horrific.
If it's any consolation I think all families regardless of color have some sort of baggage on a spectrum from inconsequential/minor to severe.
When I was growing up the neighbors next door to my grandparents were hispanic. Their nickname for their eldest daughter in the 70's was "Fatso". Guess what she became as an adult? Anorexic.
Cringing thinking of what that poor girl went through.
But I digress.
I'm just south of greater Detroit, an expat from the south. I've seen bias on both sides but try to be an individualist with everyone who crosses my path.
After reading another response, I wanted to add that "disconnection" from the color you see in the mirror is separate than the race issue itself. I kind of take it for granted, but it's worth commenting on. On a dating site that asks "what's the first thing people notice about you" my response is that I don't sound or act Indian. I played World Of Warcraft for 3 years with this group of people on headsets and 2 years in I randomly mentioned being Indian and no one believed me. My coworkers forget I'm Indian because I work remotely.
I highly recommend watching the show "Fresh Off The Boat" or "Master of None" and other things that deal with "First Gen" issues. Although not specifically what you are dealing with, I think there's a large overlap that may help you find some connection. Some of what you're talking about is finding your identity. It makes it much easier to judge, understand and tolerate other people when you have a better feeling for how you fit in. Us "first gen"-ers primarily have issues withour parents having absolutely no clue about the world we actually live in and others making assumptions about who we are based on our appearance. I'm still figuring it out, but these shows give me comfort.
I read your earlier comment as well and I must ask, have you ever heard of the "double consciousness"? W.E.B. DuBois explained his concept of this in his book The Souls of Black Folk. While he was examining the negro experience in America, at the time, first decade of the 20th century, it applies to us all who look different from European descent in America. We search for the least resistance method of being both our ethnicity and American, because when it boils down to both parts make us, us. Aziz Ansari is going to cause me to watch Master of None. Thank you for the recommendation.
No, I have not read it, but it sounds interesting. Researching that, just via wikipedia, it sounds different than my specific issue. I really cannot tolerate arranged marriage and the Indian view of women or society as a whole. I am perfectly find not being Indian. That may actually be a substantial differentiation. I see Indian culture in the form of my parents and the news, whereas early liberated slaves were generations removed from those roots. What's interesting about considering that is although you were adopted, you see African American culture(which is distinct from African culture) in the news and real life, but not your parents.
Personally, I identify as American, but due to extra exposure to Indian culture, I favor some Indian things, like Gandhi over MLK and several Hindu tenets my parents cling to like the truly "self-centered" world view that we are "shards" of a perfect being, each struggling with different delusions of our own imperfection. Other than that, I'm an American "white kid" on the inside and comfortable with that.
I am a man. The color of my skin is not important, but other people try to make it so. I defy you to try and get through a day without thinking of my skin color. I bleed red blood. I laugh. I cry when I hurt. 24 hours. Give it a try. You will fail.
Honey, if white people have a problem with you, its THEIR PROBLEM! Everything you described is something I've seen before, especially in the Adoption community I became part of when I adopted my two girls from China. I've had to be a buffer for them, because of people with their non-accepting opinions, "Well, you're American WHITE now, so get used to it and ACCLIMATE ." Other moms observe me with disdain when my girls want to dress Chinese (Why aren't you acclimating them to the American culture? They don't live in China anymore!" ), speak Mandarin ("Shouldn't you be speaking ENGLISH to them now? They ARE Americans now!" ), or talking to my older daughter about finding her birth mom ("If you had told them her mom gave her up because she didn't love her, you wouldn't be having by this talk!) These characteristics are who they are and I have no right to rob them of them!
When my oldest daughter came to me to confess with great guilt that she wanted to find her birth mom, she was in tears for "betraying me". She wasn't betraying me, she was curious about who her mom was and about her family tree, and I told her there was NOTHING wrong with wanting that, and she wasn't being disloyal to me or ungrateful. Anyone adopted would want to know those things. Her dad and I fully support her in finding her parents. As for the busy-bodies, I tell them it is a family matter and no one else's business!
If friends cannot accept you for who you are, then get new friends and make a new family! We need people who will support us, accept us, and if you must go on a search to find unconditional love, then go for it! Life is far too short to be trying to please others! As Shakespeare once said, "To thine own self be true!"
I'm sorry you've had trouble with white people. I'd welcome you with open arms because I find black people uplifting in many ways. I loved their culture, everything about it. When I'm depressed, I get together with my black girlfriends because they always pull me up by the bootstraps and always change my sadness to laughter! My husband shares my feelings; he says he likes black women more than anything because of their resilience. So go on and be your wonderful, unique self!
I'm a little late to this discussion but I want to comment about your parents. Their behavior towards you was/is wrong. Those comments were cruel.
I have mixed race grandchildren with my grandson being large and dark while his sister is much lighter and petite. They are only 13 and 11 respectively but my grandson seems to be the only one having issues from society.
One of my now former white friends asked me why my daughter "gravitated" toward black people and I told her that when black people see the kids they see black. When white people see the kids, they see black.
For the most part the black community has been very accepting of the kids whereas the white community has not. There have been some issues with the kids being accused of thinking they were better but they have become chameleons and so far can fit in but I worry about when my grandson is older.
I am sorry for how rough you have had it but am grateful you shared your story so that I can be more cognizant of the difficulties they may face as they grow up.
I'm so sorry you've had this experience. In the UK, white people are not allowed to adopt black children anymore. Maybe because of outcomes like this. I've struggled with this, as I am white, and I have 3 children with a Nigerian father. They had no input from him growing up, so are culturally white, although I did my best to encourage and foster relationships with other black people. Two of them now identify as black (both of them have suffered more racist slurs than the other), and one doesn't really think about it much. This is perhaps because she was brought up in an international diplomatic environment, where colour is not the first thing people notice, and has had the least problems (when somebody called her a "dirty paki", her reaction was to look behind her to see who they were talking about). My son has had problems, but has coping mechanisms to deal with them. My youngest, held by her throat in an alley by white thugs who told her to go back to her country (she's british), has struggled the most and has even denied her white heritage to some extent. I don't know the solution, but I hope that I have been some comfort to them, even in my whiteness. I wish you luck, and want you to know there are some white people out there that suffer with you, for you.
I grew up in Kentucky and lived east of the Mississipi until about 15 years agol I have been a minority in Navajo and Hispanic cultures. NOt the same as being black in a white culture with the connected history but I got a taste of what that might be like. Despite some of the downsides of being a minority I don't think I ever want to live in a predominantly white environment again. There is a difference hard to describe but uncomfortable to me and I am white. It is not about you personally . THe curvy thing is in addition to race not because of it. Try to be where you are comfortable and forget all the other BS that comes from gross generalization on the part of other people. i know, easy to say
Just try to remember that everyone is different and classifying anyone in one culture or another is practically impossible these days so try to be open and judge people as who they are and not what culture you think they represent. This statement is something I try to live my life by when talking to others and I think it really helps to realize that nothing is just one way or the other there is gray area everywhere and as long as you be yourself and try to see others as who they are and not who you perceive them to be it will be a lot easier to see things from others perspectives and understand why someone is doing something, and if that doesn't work and there still being rude then its probably just them, there are people like that everywhere and unfortunately theres not much humanity as a whole can do about people like that but ignore them.
Just try to remember that everyone is different and classifying anyone in one culture or another is practically impossible these days so try to be open and judge people as who they are and not what culture you think they represent. This statement is something I try to live my life by when talking to others and I think it really helps to realize that nothing is just one way or the other there is gray area everywhere and as long as you be yourself and try to see others as who they are and not who you perceive them to be it will be a lot easier to see things from others perspectives and understand why someone is doing something, and if that doesn't work and there still being rude then its probably just them, there are people like that everywhere and unfortunately theres not much humanity as a whole can do about people like that but ignore them.
One of the things I hate about racism or even classifying as one race or another is that it makes social interactions as simple as black & white. There is so much more going on that is both dramatic and subtle. Am I going to fit in with the Ultra-Rich, No and I probably never will 100% of the time. Can I adjust and be better, yes, but would I be wholly accepted without being Ultra-Rich myself? Am I going to be uncomfortable around Neo-Nazi Skin Heads? Absolutely! Does that mean I can't stand people with shaved heads? Absolutely NOT? I have a black friend that gets discriminated against and she is one of the nicest persons I have ever known. So I don't know or have the slightest clue what you go through. I do know that some people can become jaded to the point where they can view benign events as being discrimination, because they have experienced it in the past, so it can be really difficult to sort these things out. I think the most important thing is not to jump to conclusions too easily and to engage even if you are slightly uncomfortable. You may change their mind and they may very well change your mind. Oh, By the Way Curves Can Beautiful Too.
I love what you wrote! Thank you so much for sharing your experiences growing up. I’m a white, middle aged, male... I was lucky enough to have some decent elementary school education in a relatively mixed and liberal neighborhood. As such, I was indoctrinated into the knowledge of colonialism and the destruction it has visited upon many nations at an early age. So before puberty I was carrying around a deep sense of “white guilt” and longing to heal the wounds caused by the legacy of my genetic anscestry. I have no idea what if any role my “true blood” anscestors played in any oppression... but like yourself, I inherited the culture legacy at large, not the specific one of my particular family. This can have some weird effects on how I conduct myself with a black person, or anyone of a distinct ethnicity other than white (should I have said “black” or POC, African American?... that kind of thing). A lot of second guessing. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday and I said “I don’t know if it’s a white thing.... but” .... and in that moment changed the context of the conversation into one between a white person and a not white person... I didn’t mean to, and it was my desire to close the racial gap that made me say the thing... but I kept flipping it over and over in my mind “should I have said that?”. Did I make it worse? In my case my education resulted in a xenophilia (stop it autocorrect, I know what I mean) ... an affection and affinity towards other cultures. But then there is also the problem of elevating another because they posses traits you find mysterious and interesting... and coming on too strong. I have to admit I feel a burst of joy when I make a new “non-white” friend... but does that make me some kind of “collector”? I think all of these messy thoughts and feelings are why some folks just stick to their own. It’s easier to do that than try to work all this stuff out. If you are part of the majority, you have less incentive to “work things out” as well... since the system operates in your favor, it’s easy to ignore the people it oppresses.
I have a similar problem. I am of mixed descent. My mothers family is a mixture of Native American, White, and African American. My father is from an Indian background (country of). I have found that I am never black enough for the black people because of the way I talk and my hair texture. On the other hand I am accepted in most other groups. It could be because I am being sexualized. I have never really given it a lot of thought. Growing up in a mostly black area was rough and I was called a lot of names growing up. All the relationships that I have had with African American men typically were peppered with comments like my little white girl and oreo. These kinds of things were always said in a joking manner, but they still hurt. There is also the subtle push to try to convince me that being black and non Christian is wrong. Just be you and treat each encounter with people as just that. Try (I know it's hard) to not judge them based on past experiences. I am trying to apply this to my own life.
It's not just white people. Many people of color have issues with being who they are loving themselves for what they are and aren't willing to go against the grain. As a child I lived within intraracism of dark skinned vs. light skinned black. IE: Colorism. This created a rage on top of the the angst I felt of being born in America. While I dated people of various races? The color issue wasn't on the surface a big problem and didn't manifest until deeper into the relationships after things had became more serious. Needless to say I then felt betrayed by those "pretending to be inline" with what racism and other isims faced. And in good time? They were also dismissed. It's extremely hard to not be bitter about what has happened but I refuse to let that get me down and I know whenever a person has an issue with me even though they have yet to meet me or get to know me? That person really has an issue with their own self. Therefore? Poor character comes in all colors and I'd rather live life loving the lovable and giving the asshats plenty of distance. The world is my canvas and the people who illuminate my life comes in all colors and orientations. Those who have an issue based on race without discussion or knowledge? NON-FACTORS! Love yourself Boo! To hell with worrying. It is rent paid on some place you'll never actually live!!!
I've long ago given up trying to figure out race. It's an arbitrary social construct not based in scientific evidence. It's just different skin colors, no different from different eye or hair colors, yet a lot of people make such a big deal over it. I've just abandoned the whole concept of race all together.
I'm a pale-skinned Hispanic. I've been referred to as both hispanic and white before- usually based on whatever fits the other person's narrative. Racist rednecks like to call me racial hispanic slurs. SJW's like to call me white so they can play the "white privilege" card against me to try and shut me up. I've learned to say fuck both of these people- I am who I am, not the color of my skin or the ethnicity of my ancestors.
Given my own experience (which may or may not line up with your own), I'd say focus on who you are, and who you want to be. I'd also say fuck the people who judge you by the color of your skin. If people treat you badly without knowing who you are, give em a big middle finger and a big fuck you, then leave them to rot in their own stupidity. Focus on yourself and those who care about and support you. Believe me, life gets a whole lot simpler and easier that way.