The AANR (American Association for Nude Recreation) has the view that public nudity should be legal as long as the person is not doing anything with the intent of sexually arousing either themselves or anyone else.
The most stated reason by members is to get over "body shame", because doing so helps boost self esteem and confidence. There have been studies showing that children raised in nudist family have higher self esteem and confidence and are just generally more comfortable with who they are as a person.
On the other side there are those persons who seek out nude beaches and nudist events who have seual agendas. AANR nudist clubs don't tolerate such persons, and forcibly remove them shoudl they show up. I refer to such persons as "swingers" because they seem to fit the swinger lifestyle more than they do the nudist lifestyule
However, as a point of freedom. A freedom of expression, which does tno do harm to anyone, shoudl public nudity be legal? As atheists are nto burdened with religious mores , I was just wondering what the people here think?
I am a natuirst (nudist) and I have ridden the Portland (OR) World Naked Bike Ride, which has over 10,000 participants each year, and I have gone on nude hikes, visited clothing optional beaches
So, what are your thoughts?
I basically have no problem with the things you state, and can accept them as true. My problem with the public nudity being legal is the part where I'm told how I should feel about it. It's the same problem I have with the topless womans movement. I think you should be allowed to be topless or nude really wherever you want to be. But the fact of the matter is, I like seeing topless women. I like seeing naked women. I will definitely be aroused from time to time by seeing it. I want to make it clear I in no way think that that gives me to abuse the woman in question in any manner. But if I am aroused by seeing it I don't want to be shamed for it.
My experience at nudist clubs is that even when peoepl see someone they are attracted to they don't automatically get aroused. The reason why7 not is context. (the idea of a proper tiem and place for everything).
There are cases of spontaneous erections at nudist clubs. Generally, people just ignore it, and any criticisms are only if the person tries to purposefully draw attention to it. Peopel generaly just ignore it, and it tends to go away after a few minutes.
You have a good pint and I would probably be escorted out and off the beach do to a perpetual rrection and would make me look like I never belonged or am a schmuck
@Millerski25 I'll admit the first time I went naked at a nude beach, I pretty laid on my stomach for the first five to ten minutes waiting for an erection to go away, but that was the only time i had that kind of problem.
We are conditioned to associate nudity with sex and bathing. However once you get used to the context of beign nude in other situations erections aren't really an issue
Wow I am having conflicting thoughts about this one. There are tribes of nude people and I have no problem with that but we do live in the natural world anymore and I don't think I would want to slide into a booth after someone else slid out of it for example. I mean it's all fine and good until germs get shared or bodily fluids are secreted and how could that be prevented without clothing? I think a nudist colony would be cool, that way people could have a choice but let's face it, getting hair in our food is bad enough without the risk of that hair coming from other places than the top of our heads. I would have to vote no, please no.
Only people who don't know call them colonies. We call them clubs or resorts and some are pretty fancy. Some more clues, we carry towels with us to sit on so there is no shared germs or fluids and we tend to take multiple showers a day. And since most shave pubes there would be no pubic hair in your food either. You see? We've already figured all this out for you.
@cyndiann Well I definitely know more now than I did this morning lol
@RobLawrence Right? Overstimulated! Pun intended.
They're just meat-suits, y'all. Get over yourselves and the standards you were taught.
It often amazes me how many people who are atheist still hold onto the dogmas and biases they were taught by religion. Feeling fear guilt and shame about personal nudity and the nudity of others being a prime example.
@snytiger6 I agree 100%. I find myself still shaking out of the different "rules" I was taught since infancy each and every day. The bravery of it all, in my opinion, stems from the conscious decision one must make to break past those invisible barriers. The rest follows.
@soundofthereign you bring up a good point that in and of itself would be a good discussion. Those pesky "rules" really stick in a person's brain. Social conditioning....powerful.
ones body is a beautiful thing if you feel beautiful even more so. To legislate this is typical of our prudish heritage. in ontario bare breasts are legal but no one bares them so probably one could do the same and legalise the lot. Small minded men could be a problem at first but after a generation who knows. not gonna happen either way.
Looks like carrying change is going to be a bit painful. What a stupid suggestion. It, in itself, is self-serving. This would now present a moral dilemma and a personal hygiene issue.
It's distracting especially if you're driving. On the other hand it would get people off their phones. I think people forget that acceptance of public nudity is democratic so in addition to shapely females and buff males you also have to be willing to put up with grandma and grandpa and all kinds of two tons of fun.
Sure you should have right to be nude if you want. however I don't think it's right to subject that too everybody and anybody, Nude zones?
I argued with my law professor once that women should be allowed to take their shirts off outdoors, because men are allowed to. He argued fiercely that women not being allowed to take their shirts off outside was protecting us from people who would sexualize us.
My argument was that people who would sexualize us should be taught that they are wrong, or just shunned.
I think everyone should have the right to nudity if they are not doing it for sexualizing anyone. I read somewhere that the countries that allow public nudity have dramatically reduced rape statistics.
Your profesor's arguement really breaks down when you realize all the tribal cultures cultures around the world where females go bare breasted and it is not serialized at all (by other tribal members anyway).
Although National Geographic never did a photo spread, as even they reach a point of prudishness, there are tribal cultures where nudity was always the norm. Body shame is nto a universal cultural value.
I like your way of thinking!
Women in Canada have the right to be topless. If men can go topless, why not women. Any argument against women being topless are silly. Equal rights trumps puritan morality
I think that public nudity shouldn't be that big of a deal. Of course, when using public spaces, you might want to put something down for the sake of keeping things clean and germ-free for everyone's use, but otherwise it would be fine. People who are comfortable with their bodies and feel no need to wear clothes should be allowed to do away with them. It's not inherently sexual. It's just freeing.
Also get a whole lot of savings on clothes. Though maybe not sunscreen
I went on my first nudist holiday in the South of France las year. it was great to see people proudly bearing operation scars or mastectomies without shame. I saw some stunning looking women and men as well and enjoyed it immensely.
interestingly enough, it was not until the evening when people put a few clothes on did I find some of the girls very sexy - strange that.
Yeah, when at a nude beach or club, I am surrounded by naked people, butI never think of . I think it is all a matter of social context.
Also, we have been conditioned or socially programmed as a society to see peoples clothign as a part of their attractiveness.
Both scenes from the Côte d'Azur ... Though public nudity is not allowed the cops didn't stop this guy despite the fact that he was obviously not carrying his ID card. But the lady was forced by the whole riot squat to remove her Burkini. Weird planet.
Only because the Burkini was a religious statement - and publicly prominent religious displays are illegal on French beaches. In government offices, overtly religious jewellery, such as crosses, are not allowed to be worn outside one's clothing. France is fanatically secular.
@Petter too many stupid fucking cops... The burkini is not a religious garment ... It's a stupid overreaction ... But France is just slipping down the fascist lane ... No monk or nun would get arrested for wearing a religious habit on a beach ... The public nudity in this PM photo is illegal yet no cops seem to force the streaker/exhibitionist to cover up.
Yes, but only for hot ppl. Lol
Hot is a subjective word. What I consider hot is not the same as what you'd consider hot. In reality the people at nudist clubs are the same as your average person at the mall. We aren't there to be observed by others, matter of fact staring isn't allowed. I love the nudist places because everyone is considered equal, no putting people down for not looking sharp in that bikini. I've seen scars all over, double mastectomies, and all were hot to me, just for being themselves.
My first boyfriend and I used to hang out with friends, commune like, on the beaches of Lake Michigan, outside his cottage, on the dunes. It was the nicest thing ever to lay naked against the sand under the midday sun with the waves lapping the beach. Total bliss. So I get it.
Sounds like some fond memories there.
One of my best vacations was at a nudist retreat where I never had to bother getting dressed for nine days and nights.
@snytiger6 in the US?
@crazycurlz Yes, a nudist group rented a campground from a Jewish organization for a kidn of retreat in the Malibu (CA) hills.
@snytiger6 I honestly don't know whether you'd find me out there this days. My life took unexpected turns after those days on the dunes. If there a certain type of person, (demographic) that does nudist groups in the US? white, educated? just suggestions...I have no idea...
@crazycurlz I remember visiting Squaw Mountain Ranch, which is the oldest nudist club West of the Mississippi,. Anyway, I found it interesting that many members there were nudists when young, then they got married, moved to middle class neighborhoods and raised kids and after the kids were grown and moved out they went back to beign nudists again.
My impulse was to feel sorry for the kids who weren't raised as nudists. However, the areas where they lived and worked while raising their kids may nto have been the best circumstances to be nudists.
I grew up in Florida.Before there were amusements and attractions in my town it was much like a deserted island with beach cottages. The reason people came was to fish and to sunbathe. The agenda was for maximum sun exposure. I grew up seeing old men in speedo's and granny's in string bikinis. Children of both sexes in underwear and topless. If you wanted more exposure you went to the far end of the beach where it was understood that more skin was going to be exposed. If folks were going to be offended, (out of town visitors.) they were kept away. Fat people, skinny people. Work uniforms were shorts and sleeveless tops for women, and cut-off shorts and work boots for men. Women had nursing circles on the front porches of public buildings. Folks were respected and not sexualized. I loved that world, and wish I could go back to it.
And it's gone because of religion and patriarchy.
Sadly so...
Only if the nudists are truly guaranteed to be safe from others. Which they are not, in the US, unless they are in a group. I love being naked whenever I comfortably can be. I was raised in Europe, where it is safe for a woman to be bare chested, if she so chooses to be and more. The first time I ever wore a bathing suit was when I was ten years old and my mother said I had to at least were the bottom because there were Americans around, who she said had perverted sexual obsessions.
Yeah. American culture is overly obsessed with sex. I don't think it is healthy or good for society to have such obsessions.
Right. Perverted Americans.
Not everywhere. But every region/country should give options for nudists/naturalists as well as a human right. So people could decide if they want to go to pure nudist or mixed outdoor places. Who don‘t want to see nakedness could stay away from these places. Live and let live.
Good post and good question.
I, too, am a nudist (naturalist), but seldom am I naked. I live with roommates who would not be comfortable with me walking around without clothes on. My last roommate didn't care as much and had seen me naked (at a nude establishment twice) previously to us deciding to be roommates. So he's seen my stuff and I've seen his. Who cares? He did care sometimes and sometimes he didn't. I've never lived with a fellow naturalist.
So I keep my clothes on. Keeps people comfortable.
Public nudity, I believe, is a very healthy thing. The statistics you shared have been backed up multiple times by numerous studies. But are Americans ready to accept public nudity? Without question, the answer is a definitive no. Not even close to being ready. And I blame religion and insecurities inflicted by society (fueled partially advertising) for this.
The Bible teaches people to be shameful of their bodies. The "flesh" is a temptation that leads to evil. And to many, whether religious or not, a naked body is a sexual object. Not a healthy viewpoint, but it is a popular one.
I think many are afraid of the fine lines that might be crossed if public nudity became legal. If I may speak for men specifically for a moment. Let's suppose public nudity is written into law. If a man adjusts himself, is it a crime? If a man gets an accidental hard on in public, is he breaking the law? Is it harmful for children to see naked adults? Only if they are taught it is wrong. And they are taught that it is wrong. In a society that requires everyone to be clothed in public, it is the naked man who is a potential threat. That belief wouldn't go away in a generation if laws did change.
And what about one's own insecurities? People can't seem to get passed the fact that some people are slimmer than others, endowments vary from person to person, and everyone isn't beautiful under those layers of clothing. As naturalists, we know that isn't the point. Changing laws would actually, as you stated, would lessen insecurities. But not for this generation, I suspect. Positive self-esteem results wouldn't be seen until the first generation children born into a society where nothing is optional became adults. Americans are far from being that patient for results for anything. That, and for religious reasons, is why public nudity will never become permissible by law. But should it be law? Yes, I believe so. But, with current widely held beliefs, the belief that public nudity could create dangerous situations could result in self- fulfilling prophecy. Too many in our society believe nudity is a sexual thing. Since this brief is so widely accepted, it means it is also accepted by those who would cause harm. Unethical Exhibitionists and predators would halt any chance for public nudity to continue as permissible by law, even if it initially passed in the first place.
Numerous initial horror stories would force the law to be repealed. There just isn't enough time for public opinion and deep-seated beliefs to change. A law allowing public nudity would most likely produce the biggest outcry in American history. The unhealthy beliefs of the past thousands of years is deeply rooted in the minds of too many for there to even be a chance such a proposed bill would make it off the desk of a politician thinking of suggesting it to fellow Congress or Senate members. Such a rebel would undoubtedly be voted out of office when the time came or soon be removed from office.
So we, as a society, are stuck with our unhealthy body images and the Biblical teaching that man (people) should be ashamed of their nakedness. These perceptions aren't going away any time soon. And the very real fear of abuse is too prevalent for many to differentiate between potential danger and freedom of being without clothes.
Maybe it would work in some of the more atheistic countries in the world. Maybe. But, in the United States? It will never happen. Which is unfortunate. The results would show an increase in improved body image and be a freer way to live for many. But the positive results would be many years coming. And Americans and the citizens of other repressive countries with religious belief are way too impatient to wait around for over a generation to see a change in public opinion. If a change doesn't show immediate positive results, it will never happen.
Good post
Jeff ?
You make a lot of good points. As a person who studied Xociology in college, I know that if you try to change to omuch too quickly in any society it causes more problems than it solves Societies have to change gradually over time.
I have talked about ridign in the Portland ((OR) World Naked Bike Ride many times. The ride attracts over 10,000 participants every year. I've never heard of any misconeduct among participants,and I have lived in the area for 8 years now. If there is misconduct, it is from those who aren't riding, but just watching. Because of this the route of the ride is different each year and ketp secret, so only the organizers and local police know the route until the actual ride begins.
I am aware that at the local nudist clubs, which are clothing optional, that in the "wet areas", meaning pool jacuzzi, steam rooms and saunas, nudity 9si required. The reasoning beign that when you mix clothed and nude people in those areas, if anyone misbehaves, it is almost always the clothed persons.
It woule seem that those who feel too insucre to be nude themselves, are the ones who strike out at those who are secure with themselves and are comfortable in their own skin. A behavior which religion reinforces.
In any case, there is a Naturist and Nudists group on this site int he groups section. [agnostic.com]
I admit I did have hope society was changing to better accetp public nudity whenh Young Naturists of Amerca was formed, but the people runnign the organization burne dout as many who run nonprofits do, and the organization sadly folded. However that it did so well while it was going does sugest a change in attitudes of younger generations.
I’m a fan. I like the idea of less laundry, lol!
Yes, when I became a nudist the amount of my laudry was greatly reduced. Also my clothes just generally lasted longer. So, I save money on detergents, on guying new clohtes for those that wear out and on energy and water costs, because of less laudray.
Naturism is definitely a green lifestyle.
If god wanted us naked, we'd have been born that way....!
You obviously don't live in Alaska!
Just being nude should not be a crime... I would love to go to a nude beach sometime....
Having lived in Southern California, the closest (legl) nude beach to you is Blacks Beach in San Diego. I think I read about a nude beach in North Santa Barbara country, but I have never been to it. There are soem clothing optional hotels and spas in Palm Springs, but many of them cater to "swingers".
Covering oneself for modesty is a by-product of religious shaming, full stop. There is no reason to be ashamed of bodies, sexuality, or bodily processes. We are human... just an overgrown, relatively hairless hominid. We need be as ashamed of nudity as the other apes.
Clothing, when functional, makes sense. We don't have a double layer coat of fur. And sometimes it's kinda nice to have a little support and to keep things from bouncing into harm's way.
However, implementation of nudist ways, in an unprepared culture can be a bit dicey.
I can only think that the average farm-hand from years of yore was much more accepting of penises (penes), vaginas (vaginae), and sexuality in general, as the animal husbandry on an average farm would, today, make most westerners blush, if not keel over these days.
For people my age public nudity should be a felony.
Only if there is lewd intent... and that would be for persons of any age.