One of my favorite T-shirts reads "If we were meant to be naked, we'd have been born that way." I especially like ht elooks on the faces of believers when they figure out what it is really saying.

@snytiger6 I must get one of those made!

@Petter I got mine from cafepress.com

@snytiger6 Thanks for the tip.

I think people whould wear clothing for warmth and protection when necessary. I just also think that if it isnt' necessary, then they shoudl have the option of whether or nto to wear clothes.

I know in NY women can go topless. However in Arkansas rather than let women go topless they actually made it illegal for men to go without shirts (although for men it is usually not enforced).

Unfortunately, think of the sexual harassment in city centres, and probable accompanying violence. I feel society should ban nudity in crowded areas (imagine a crowd of strange men pressing up against you and pretending it's because of the crowd.). In certain areas nudity rules could be relaxed, to allow people to be topless legally. (Some of the men I've seen topless, or dressed in a vest, in your neck of the woods are gross, by the way. So if they can go topless, why not women?) Beaches should allow people to be topless, unless designated otherwise. ... and certain, well marked areas should allow full nudity, provided there are warning signs prominently displayed so those who wish to stay away may do so.
Maybe you should suggest it to Caroline Lucas!

@Petter do I detect you're local to me? Caroline Lucas is of course our local Green MP although I don't actually live in her constituency. Actually Brighton has its own designated nudist beach, I don't use it, but although it caused a stir locally when first opened, nobody takes any notice now...

@Astrantia I live in the extreme South-East of Spain, but visit England regularly. My son lives in Banstead and my daughter used to live in Ardingly, but recently moved to Godalming. I own a house in Hailsham, very near to Newhaven, but it is let.
There are designated nudist beaches here, which likewise receive little attention.

A lot of nudists actually start later in life. It seems the attitude is after you get so old that they just say "what the hell". Pesonally I wish I had started much younger.

I once had a body that was considered "ideal". I had to exercise for at least three hours a day, at least for at least five days a week in order to just maintain it. Now, I just have an "average" body, which means no definition and some extra pounds in unflattering places. There really is nto much point in all that effort unless you make a living as a model.

Life is too short to be worried about what other people think about my current body condition. I am happy and comfortable with myself.

Nudity doesn't mean you lose your common sense. Protection where it's needed.

With you there, sometimes I cook shirtless and I am usually surprised how far hot oil can go!

I am amazed at how few people realize that even if they aren't religious they still carry a lot of dogmas from religion without realizing it. I can see you are more aware than those persons.

Ironically, the bible itself does nto specifically ban nudity. It has many references about how you shoudl feel ashamed about nudity, which seems to be more about religious leaders controlling people though fear and shame than it has ever been a dictate that was supposed to come from the god of the bible. There has never been a commandment to "cover up.". It has always just been dogma.

Exactly. As far as I know nudism or naturism started to grow fast in Germany somewhere at the start of the seventies, not in the least as a way of protesting. It spread fast over Europe. It is called there FKK (Frei Körper Kultur, which means Free Body Culture). It's goal was and is to enjoy company of other people that shared the appalling limitations by the religious dogmas and the by religion dictated laws. "Together be fee" Because of the pleasant temperature former Yugoslavia a lot of camping sites became FKK, mostly a big part of the site at the back. It was and still is very popular. As result of that you sauna's are mixed and have only a few single gender hours, most of the times especially for ladies that feel uncomfortable with naked men around them for reasons of dogma's or abuse.
I guess that bible-dogma finds its origin in "Adam and Eve saw they were nude and covered themselves" or words like that. This little line was added for dogmatic reasons. I can think of some reasons for that, in general for controlling communities ans societies. No further limitations on nudity in the Bible as far as I know.

The funny thing is though, at these camping sites and nude beaches appear to be free of sexual harassment. Because everything is "openly visible" it is not firing fantasies. The Netherlands has an expression "bloot slaat dood" which means more or less "nudity falls flat". I think that's how it works indeed. The funny thing was at the nude beaches, that there were always a few viewers that walked around dressed, with an erection. Nude men? Never seen it.

the fkk - as nude sunbathing & exercising in nature - actually was born in germany in the early 20. century. at the time the movement included raw-foodism & natural remedies, & advocated back to nature; Rudolf Steiner & the waldorf schools were part of what developed in this environment. it was also very non-religious, or heathen you might say.

All unreasonable restriction comes from religion.

@walklightly as far as I know it was more than nude sunbathing & exercising in nature as you state, and it was not necessarily related to Rufolf Steinder schools and alternative ways of living. But if you want to know more, check this link out. It tells more of the background:

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't understand though why this link is not completely seen as such.

@Gert, thank you for the link. i mentioned back to nature, raw-foodism & natural remedies as well; also that R. Steiner & waldorf were PART of the movement at the time. the maternal branch of my family lived the Lebensreform (life reform) style. google it!

Because it's not natural to hate bodies, not natural to clothe unless you're cold or something.

I believe I have read there is actually more than just one park in Germany where nudity is allowed.

I live near Portland, Oregon (USA), and there if people see soemone naked, it is really no big deal. I've done several naked bike rides through the city there.

I do a lot of reading and find it interesting how in historical novels as Europeans reach the Americas they make it a priority to teach natives to be ashamed of their bodies. Nakedness was nto really a big deal to most native cultures.

The truth is that we are taught to feel ashamed. It doesn't come naturally (even if the bible says that it does). It is a bit of a farce for everyone to cover up, even though everyone already knows what is under the clothes..

@snytiger6 I once met an Australian Aboriginal who was a bit of a celebrity, i had a long talk with him. He asked me: "What do you think was the worst thing [for us] that Europeans brought?" I guessed guns, maybe the bible, ..?... but no, he said "Clothes." And seeing the poor natives looking extremely awkward packed away in victorian garb, you can see why. Shoes included. He said they stopped feeling the Earth.

@ZebZaman I have read a couple of books by Michael Talbot about the founding of Australia (there are three altogether, but I haven't red the third yet), and when they talked about snow in winter (our summer), I wondered how Aborigines managed to keep warm, but they must have done just fine.

the same in hamburg, my former hometown. nudity in the city's summer parks

I think nudity allows you to see people for who they really are. Most persons who hae something to hide will hide it, in part, by the way they dress.

My point being that yeah, there may be some unattractive persons out there, but I'll take seeing those persons in exchange for seeing people more for who they are rather than who they pretend to be. Clothign just helps with their pretenses.

If you think about the list of people you don't wan tot see naked, if you did see those persons naked, then you would not think of them in the same ways. They would not seem as powerful or influential, but more like regular people. I would be a great equalizer of power.

It is considered proper etiquette in nudist culture to carry towels to sit on for hygienic purposes.

It is considered proper etiquette in nudist culture to carry towels to sit on for hygienic purposes.

I did not know that, but it makes sense.

Hygenic concerns seems to be pretty universal. However puttign that aside, I think peopel shoudl have the choice of whether or not to wear clothing, rather than have clothing be required by law (for other than hygienic reasons).

You're hygiene argument is ridiculous. People wipe their ass, hold their penis after urinating - all with their hands. Yet we shake hands with people without being disgusted, we open door that people have touched, we handle money that has been circulating in the community daily. Hell, I bet most of use have even participated in a work or social pot luck, with no concern about the cleanliness of the person's home that brought the food. Hygiene issues are more mental than actually founded.

[slate.com]
[besafemeds.com]

@jondspen There’s a difference between what you don’t know, and what you do know. If I did know that someone hadn’t washed their hands, or other necessary bits, after going to the loo, I wouldn’t touch them. If I knew someone’s kitchen was a cess pit, I wouldn’t eat or drink anything they’d touched, let alone cooked.

We do worry overmuch about hygiene, but there are limits. If you’d be happy to sit where someone else’s shitty arse had been, good luck to you. But I’m wouldn’t be. And I’m allowed.

@KevinTwining Again, most people I know use toilette paper, and don't have an inch of shit smeared across their ass, so your argument isn't really based on reality. Plus, even when I sit in a chair to get dressed, my A hole isn't all up on the cushion. Maybe people with extreme flat asses have this problem, but most people I know have their anus in a crack that doesn't directly touch the chair. And the only difference between knowing there is microscopic shit on a bathroom doorknob and not knowing when you touch it - is that you don't know. Same microbs still get on your hand. But thank you for replying without any data or references, just your opinion. That make so much better an argument than my two links.

@jondspen Give it up mate. You’re becoming tiresome.

@jondspen in the "today" of diseases that cannot be cured, spread by bodily fluids, you are an IDIOT!!!!!

[slate.com]
[besafemeds.com]

Unfounded fear

@jondspen yeah, okay,I took care of my brother in law as he died of AIDS, 6'3" , 83lbs at the end. You can bet your ass after cleaning up fountains of bodily fluids as he wasted away over 6 months, I got tested! Clothing is a sanitary barrier, just look at how operating room personnel are dressed, for the protection of Everyone in there.