I think many people desperately need to feel their life has a meaning beyond materialistic or mundane things. That keeps them clinging to religion, charlatans, and other sellers of lies. I wish for a world free of religion and magical thinking. The only way it will be achieved is through an evolution of ideas. Atheism today is just nihilism, it offers no hope to people that can’t live without it or that are told to find their own. Since I want atheism to be a viable option, that can be successful, I am seeking new answers and engaging in all sorts of new ideas. That gives me meaning and purpose. ? Ultimately I’d like to leave the world a better place than I found it and I believe finding ways to allow people to digest and accept the truth is a great one.

@Lucignolo I agree totally with regard to the nihilistic aspect of atheism. The way it is presented in some schools of thought is no different to a proselytised religion with the same mentality in play as some of the fundamental aspects of Christianity and Islam. Just different content

@Lucignolo I would suggest that the first course of action is to encourage existential ideas. Heidegger brings in some good fundamentals but, for me, only really kicks things off. Overlay him with some Taoist and Negative Theology might take it further. I’m quite happy to be a sounding board or kick some ideas around if you would like

I wasn’t talking specifically about humans only. My question doesn’t just apply to humans as it asked about life and the universe itself. “Do you think life and the universe have a purpose?”. That is not anthropocentric.

I agree though. The universe isn’t there for us and wasn’t built for us or some sort of ridiculous similar idea.

@Lucignolo Yes I do feel it has a purpose - to evolve.

I think many people desperately need to feel their life has a meaning beyond materialistic or mundane things. That keeps them clinging to religion, charlatans, and other sellers of lies. I wish for a world free of religion and magical thinking. The only way it will be achieved is through an evolution of ideas. Atheism today is just nihilism, it offers no hope to people that can’t live without it or that are told to find their own. Since I want atheism to be a viable option, that can be successful, I am seeking new answers and engaging in all sorts of new ideas. That gives me meaning and purpose. ? Ultimately I’d like to leave the world a better place than I found it and I believe finding ways to allow people to digest and accept the truth is a great one.

@Lucignolo meaning comes from friends, family, hobbies/volunteering, even pets

He wrote a whole book about it. But here is a start:

@Lucignolo
I don't disagree with the points JBP makes here, but to get a broader view of this question I think we have to back up a notch, to the question behind it: Why is Homo sapiens the only animal that spends time worrying about the meaning of life? Is there any evidence that pandas or crocodiles or mockingbirds cogitate about this issue? The first part of this answer is pretty immediately obvious; our big brains are capable of abstract thought. Without that capacity the concern is not even conceivable. Without the capacity for abstract thought all we could do is try to meet the demands of our instinctual urges, like the deer or opossum. We would be satisfied to seek food, safety, procreation, etc.

The other, perhaps more important, half of the answer may not be as readily apparent. Humans have created a more reliable, artificial, supply chain to meet our natural needs. Our complex, technology-infused societies automatically pipe hot and cold running satisfaction right to our climate controlled, police protected, indemnified, feeding and reproduction stations. We have the luxury of worrying about meaning.

Wherever these supply systems have broken down or have not been built, humans, oversized crania notwithstanding, are more like our animal cousins regarding this question. Ask a starving family in South Sudan, or a terrified teenager in war-torn Syria how many hours per day they spend wrestling with the meaning conundrum. They have all the meaning they can handle. It is our outrageous success that provides the incubator for this imaginary problem. I think it really has less to do with our religious convictions than how full our stomachs are.

Now, given that most of us reading this website ate today, and have the luxury of suffering over meaning and purpose, Jordan is probably right. In times of peace and plenty, the next emergent opportunity for meaning is our potential for contributing value to our community, and nothing about that depends on whether we envision it in religious or evolutionary terms.

@skado are you suggesting it's all white priveleged folk's problems ? ?

@SimonCyrene
I’m betting it leans that way.

@skado As humans I believe we have a duty to investigate the world, find more truth, find meaning, make new discoveries.

Philosophy is still relevant because what we think of ourselves and our role in the universe affects how we act towards our planet, other animals, towards each other.

I’m not saying JP is right or wrong. I just think it’s good to incorporate new ideas in our minds. Meaning is just as imaginary as education, morality, omnivorousism, marriage. It’s all just ideas and humans have been wondering about this particular topic for millennia, even when their stomachs weren’t as full as ours.

I posted this question under philosophy, where it belongs. You may find it to be trivial or pointless, I was asking people that are actually interested in contributing to the conversation. Pointing out these are first world problems not worth considering adds nothing. If you think it’s a waste of time, no one is forcing you to think about this or any other issues that aren’t filling your belly with food.

I think many people desperately need to feel their life has a meaning beyond materialistic or mundane things. That keeps them clinging to religion, charlatans, and other sellers of lies. I wish for a world free of religion and magical thinking. The only way it will be achieved is through an evolution of ideas. Atheism today is just nihilism, it offers no hope to people that can’t live without it or that are told to find their own. Since I want atheism to be a viable option, that can be successful, I am seeking new answers and engaging in all sorts of new ideas. That gives me meaning and purpose. ? Ultimately I’d like to leave the world a better place than I found it and I believe finding ways to allow people to digest and accept the truth is a great one.

@skado the physical and the metaphysical touch? The rest of the talk is an exercise in showing how smart he is, leaving small crumbs that would benefit a good car salesman for his next pitch.
It would be so much simpler to expose an elementary philosophy of existentialism, without so many convolutions.

@Lucignolo

Please accept my apologies. It was not my intention to trivialize your question, but looking back over what I wrote I can easily see how you might have gotten that impression. I very definitely thought your post was a worthy topic of discussion. That's why I immediately hit the "like" button under it, watched the video you sent me (thank you) and spent a couple hours of my time composing what I thought (and apparently a couple other people thought) was a useful philosophical contribution to the conversation.

I did not at all mean to suggest that the quest for meaning is only a product of your imagination, but rather a product of the overactive imagination of Homo sapiens, exactly as you suggest, just like "education, morality, omnivorousism, marriage" etc. My point being that if we can imagine ourselves into these challenges, maybe we can imagine ourselves back out of them by seeing them for what they are: problems that don't plague species who don't possess 'Formal Operational Stage' thinking skills, and haven't oversupplied their natural appetites, leaving a "meaning-vacuum".

This state of affairs is not a result of modern first world opulence, but more likely a consequence of the Agricultural Revolution of ten to twelve thousand years ago. It was certainly in full swing in the fertile crescent some two thousand years before Jesus joined the fray. Artifacts suggest Homo sapiens may have been toying with symbolic thought as far back as forty to a hundred thousand years ago, but whatever the date, it seems safe to assume our forebears of two or three hundred thousand years ago weren't suffering for lack of meaning in their lives. All this to say that it probably isn't a problem inherent in material reality but one more related to mental management.

Far from thinking this is a trivial issue, I too recognize that "many people desperately need to feel their life has a meaning beyond materialistic or mundane things" and, there is literally nothing more ~meaningful~ to me than contributing in some constructive way toward a solution to this problem. If I didn't respect your contribution to the discussion, rest assured I would not have bothered to comment on your post. I have nothing but disdain for hit-and-run smear tactics.

Where our thinking might diverge a tad is that I don't categorically assign "religion" to the garbage heap of "lies". I tend to define religion more broadly than just superstitious thinking, to include any mental practice that helps us counterbalance our evolved animal nature toward our higher aspirations, encompassing not only the numerous extant obsolete schemes, but also any rare, possible healthy ones.
I agree with your assessment that a nihilistic atheism won't fill the real need, but that the solution must be founded on a willingness to relinquish our dependence on literal deity concepts.

Since you are "seeking new answers and engaging in all sorts of new ideas" I assumed you might be open to an earnest discussion that examined possible amalgamations of evidence-based worldviews with reformed religious practice. I'm reasonably confident that this is a "new" enough idea that it hasn't yet been adequately explored. People usually tend to aggregate around one extreme or the other, but creative answers are often forged by "reaching across the aisle".

JBP appreciator that I admittedly am, I do tend to feel sometimes that his solutions seem to emanate from a privileged perspective, and one could argue that the enlarged H.sapiens brain of 200K years ago might comprise a "privilege" of sorts, but I was in no way suggesting that a good-faith discussion of our very real (in my opinion) "crisis of meaning" was not worth discussing. Getting complex ideas across the technological ethers without inadvertently stepping on the occasional toe is a high bar to meet, and I fail often, but never for lack of trying.

I find your post here to be among the most engaging I've encountered on this site, and hope to see many more from you in the future.

@Eldovis
I can't argue with you there. Peterson's explanations are often absurdly convoluted. But to the extent I can follow them, I think he often makes some legitimate, maybe groundbreaking, points. To see them though, I have to step over a lot of his annoying paranoid affectations and unnecessary defensiveness. He's a mixed bag for sure.

@skado You don’t need to apologize, sir. Thanks for taking the time to clarify your thoughts. I appreciate it. They are very eloquently expressed and clear. I didn’t understand your first post, but now I see what you mean. I like your perspective on religion and your broader interpretation of the concept. it may be a good way to move towards a better future and find common ground between sexularism and religion. Thank you