How to answer religious people's prejudiced remarks?
I was just talking to a woman (because she had a dog with her - not something I've seen in many Australian hotels). Somehow we got onto the topic of indigenous people, & I got a calm but gut-wrenching response along the lines of "their morality is so different from ours, they spend their money on alcohol, get drunk & go thieving, sexually active at 10, I actually had to teach a class of aboriginals once, etc etc". Turns out she's a lutheran minister/teacher. I was outraged, but my British reserve (you may not have noticed it in my previous posts!) actually prevented me from telling her what I thought of her. I just ended the conversation. My question is - do you have any polite, but cutting comments I could have used on this woman? I'd rather have let her know how I felt.
I would say do you hear what you are saying? Usually gets your foot in the door. Because it sounds like your saying these people aren't worth helping. . . .
I think it'd unlikely that a lifelong Lutheran minister is going to listen to reason.
@GoldenDoll They might not listen, but they would carry those thoughts around.
Oh my god, I never knew that their culture was so backwards and ignorant! You know that reminds me of this girl I knew, she got pregnant at 13, had 4 kids by 20, each from different fathers, and abused them all. It really sucked because I felt so bad for her kids, but I didn't know any better at the time, and she was really active in church so I figured they wouldn't let that happen. Anyway, last I heard she had gotten the kids back for the second time after losing control to CPS for using drugs. Oh... wait, im sorry I just remembered she was white. TOTALLY not the same thing right?
I am sorry you think and feel that way, but you'll have to excuse me, I need to go out for a breath of fresh air.
?
Nice.
"as a christian i think you might want to work on your empathy with a people, terribly mistreated in the not too distant past." how does that sound?
"Didn't Jesus hang out with, like, prostitutes and stuff? I thought he made a point of bringing his love and charity to the most downtrodden and sinful, and admonished his followers to do the same?"
[optional addendum]
pause a beat for hanging open of mouth
"Ah, what do I know, anyway--I'm just a dirty, dirty atheist: no wonder I don't put myself above such wretched folk."
Well said
Nailed it
Why would you treat a "religious" nasty racist any differently that an ordinary nasty racist ? Cut them off & walk away in disgust...or if you are quick on your feet, quote something from the babble, like "what you do to the least of these, you do to me" & then exit the toxic area.
Because justifying your racism through religion is a double-whammy.
They were not like that till people like you and me came along love. I can't imagine where they learned it.
I would have to step away. That kind of stuff gets me angry and I don't have a filter.
If I open my mouth at that point, I would have them in tears.
I have a lot of people that I care about that have a different background than I do. My ex-wife is black. My ex girlfriend is Asian.
I've dated all sorts of races. I'm very antiracist and antistereotype
I have black and Mexican American relatives, half my friends are Muslim or Buddhist, I am androgyne, and also have LGBTQ relatives. I also couldn't have replied to her without choking on my tongue because of all the snarky things I'd want to say.
Knowing me, though, I'd probably have paused..murmured "Uh-huh, sure!" very slowly, then turned and walked away as though she were a leper.
yes, i have to admit that the typed "response" suggestion i can deliver here has nothing in common with how i'd have a reaction in "real". i certainly wouldn't call it composed (6)
I appologise in advance as I know this isn't an answer to the question you asked. I have had some aboriginal students over the years and some time back ran a cultural interpretation project for Aboriginal Rangers. Generally in Australia we are trying to preserve what remains of aboriginal culture and languages. Aboriginal culture is a mostly nomadic one, following game and the seasons, how can this fit into the industrial culture of Australian society? Last month I was listening to a young aboriginal girl on the radio explaining that to take up a job for wages would be denying and losing a large part of their culture. I agree with her totally. I am a mostly self sufficient ex hippie beach bum, I do not believe full employment should be a goal for society. We need diversity to survive and to make life more pleasant. Why do we homogenise everything, a one size fits all solution looks very boring.
thank you so much, @Rugglesby, i quite enjoyed the little wild branch, being an odd one out myself.
To be honest I don't think that is just a Christian thing to say. You may get the same response from many non religious Aussies and Kiwis. I know that sounds terrible and Im humming and harring about actually commenting. There are so many beautiful, amazing, talented and intelligent Aboriginals out there and there are also some not so much.
My friends in Perth and Darwin have many things to say about that. I now sound like a racist asshole which Im not, but alot of that community have various issues I think. I don't mean to sound like a twat. My apologies.
yes, the aboriginal community has major issues, & all of them to do with the fact that we as the descendants of the invaders, of the rapists, of the slave drivers & ... yes, the missionaries, that to this day we do not (want to) understand or respect their culture.
I know how you feel. One of my relatives made the comment "all Abos are lazy", and I had to bite my typing fingers.
On the face of it though, a lot of the points that lady made are factual. I have spoken to several professionals working in remote areas who confirm those points.
The important point is though, that its NOT because they are Aboriginal, its due to the environment they have been confined to. There are any amount of stories of people of ALL ethnicities that revert to this behavior in similar circumstances. Its a "Lord of the Flies" phenomena.
The only solace I have found is that inch by inch, enlightened non-judgemental and educated civilisation is increasing around the world, and eventually we will all be able to participate in quality life.
I would like to agree with your final statement, but think it is just a pipe dream and will never happen.
Yes, to an outsider the reasons for such behaviour are obvious. But I am astounded at how many of the invaders still believe they are not responsible for it.
I don't think turning indigenous people into westerners, working in jobs in pursuit of money, is "improving " them at all. I say let them govern themselves, give them back their lands, stop poisoning the wildlife to make room for your livestock, and turning cats and other domestic animals loose to destroy the native wildlife.
Like they used to say "all black people are lazy" in England 50 years ago. It's an immense culture shock being in a country (Australia) which still doesn't recognise why these things happen .
@BanjoTango, how can a harmonious society that would include the indigenous people ever happen in australia? aborigines are nomadic by nature, but with the invaders having taken over ALL the most desirable places for a seasonal break (coastal areas, riverbanks, etc.) they will never be able to resume to what their culture was all about: not accumulating excess, leaving no or as good as no footprint? sorry, on this one i'm with @jlynn: the british crown (!!!) & private landowners have to give back hugely, or nothing's gonna shift. instead the government invites china & india to have a chunk of the land too....
@walklightly - I visited Mossman Gorge yesterday - intrigued by "80% indigenous personnel," etc. And they were. But 80% of the stuff in the shop was "made in China".
@GoldenDoll, we need a fullblown revolution in australia; change of government doesn't work. just my observations since i moved here, 16 years ago.
Challenges like overcrowding, disenfranchisement, theft, dishonesty, lack of resources, violence have been with humans from the beginning - and they were no less of a problem for Aboriginal people of any land. Just read William Buckleys story for examples, or any account about the tropical "paradises" of the Pacific before European influence.
I doubt many people on this forum would swap their lives for any other age in human history because of modern medicine, knowledge, ease of travel, the justice system, reduced civil unrest etc etc.
So despite all the pessimism about "progress", perhaps things are moving in the right direction ?
@walklightly - agreed. Just heard that Port Douglas Marina has been sold to a Syrian billionaire! He's putting in 200 million for renovations so he can dock his million pound yacht there. SYRIA for chrissakes! Children dying in his country & f***ing Kenneth Branagh on TV asking me to send money for blankets!
@BanjoTango - agreed. But you can't just invade someone's land & bung them a bottle of alcohol & expect everything to be ok. There are some very angry young people here.
@GoldenDoll, yes, the current land development, wholesale & all, of australia is rather tragic. i'm glad to be childless.
Apologies. I can't think of a single thing to say to someone like that which could be remotely considered "polite". I am, unfortunately, used to hearing much the same directed at the indigenous people of the US. And black people, and hispanic people, and italians, and anyone else who isn't lily white and waving a goddamn American flag.
And holding that goddamn bible.
In other words, most of the GOP, and most/all Trumpites. But anyone can be prejudiced, and most of the world seems to agree with the tall-blonde-Caucasian-as-top-dog-race concept, for some reason. Maybe soon it will switch to the Chinese, though.
"I need to tell you I utterly disagree with you - but cool dog!".
But it's not cool. Even for a dog.
@GoldenDoll The dog wasn't the misinformed. So cool dog? lol
@GoldenDoll I think you didn't get my phrasing rhythm there. You say "I need to tell you I utterly disagree with you.".... "Your dog is still nice.". Does that sound better? You said you have that British reserve so follow up with a compliment to the dog. No control over who it's owned by after all!
@RavenCT - oh now I get you! I thought 'cool dog' was a US hipster expression! Yes! I love 'compliment the dog's idea - that's genius! "Oh dear. But anyway your dog seems nice". Sorted!
"Ma'me...these people are all your cousins...if you go back in history far enough".