We know that cheating on a partner is unethical, but...
Why do we never question the reason behind why people in married or long-term relationships might cheat? For sake of argument, let's say that the husband or wife was a good spouse and dedicated to their partner, and children if they exist. In the absence of debilitating illnesses and the like that might prevent intimacy, what if they over time withhold sex and affection out of spite? Maybe are emotionally or psychologically abusive, even worse...physically abusive? Maybe they have a substance abuse or gambling problem. Maybe they just decided to cheat on them for no reason? I know that divorce is an option, but what about those with young children or who have children and less financial stability apart from their partner? Why do we consider cheating unethical if they're married to someone who treats them terribly? No one can predict how a person might change and treat them after marriage. Why love, honor and obey when it seems like one person is only holding up their side of the bargain? Why do we treat infidelity as a black and white issue? By the way, I don't condone cheating for cheating's sake. I'd rather if divorce were an option that they take that instead; but if someone finds something better than what they get at home, I say take it. But make sure you're up front and honest with the person you're spending time with outside the marriage/relationship. Just my thoughts on the matter...again, I DON'T condone cheating for cheating's sake.
2
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
13 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.""We know that cheating on a partner is unethical, but...""
What you have described has lots of fodder for exploration.
Relationship / marriage: What pact did each of them think they, and the other person, were committing to?
There is an assumption that the marriage vows somehow imply that a women is obligated to only play with one "penis" as long as the marriage lasts. And many men think that means is forever.
How inhumane is that?
When one partner specifically reneges on the assumed promises regarding sexual intimacies that frees the other to seek to find some stability with another.
Sexual/love outside the relationship is labeled "Cheating, infidelity,..." These are concepts
that require context. The general context has significantly changed during the past 100 years.
As you have described, life is not only about sexual activities. Yet we have deep genetic need to find release, and enjoy the emotions of sharing it, with another.
If we are discreet, we are being true to ourselves, and to our short existence.
JacarC
Level 8
Nov 1, 2018
0
If one breaks trust with the person you made a commitment to, then it makes one untrustworthy. And while it might make one squirm to be told this, it also means one is being deliberately cruel and selfish. Whether the commitment was to abstain from sex with other people, or to only play Pinochle with grandma on certain days of the week, is irrelevant. A promise is a promise. If one partner fails to provide the sex that the other partner feels entitled to, based upon the terms of the initial commitment, that's when the partners need to COMMUNICATE, and discuss how to handle that problem, possibly change the terms of the commitment, or decide if it's time to terminate the relationship. It is still not grounds for rationalizing cheating. The decent thing to do is to end the relationship before breaking trust, because not doing so defines your character. Cheating is never okay. This is not rocket science.
@Deb57 .. .. Too many topics/issues/subjects to address in such a forum ,. maybe.
I am not defending/supporting deception. I am just clarifying that a broken relationship is not the only reason for "cheating."
Your experience is sad. I am sad to know of it. But, my marriage vows did not include sexual "fidelity."
This is a crazy concept. To only use one's happy bits with one other human for decades. Just plain insane. For all involved.
Reading and sharing hundreds of books about science is fine, but fucking someone not in the house is somehow wrong. That idea is what is wrong.
This is not a negation of what was reasonable to expect from explicitly stated statements.
She insisted that I promise to be exclusive. I did. And I have been faithful. This has been bad for both of us.
@Deb57 ... ... Communication is not always possible. And such confrontation might lead to too much pain to endure the continuation of an otherwise great relationship.
Life is complicated. And short. And unreasonable. And sad. What should we expect? What makes sense given how long we live?
Women need to be poked to ensure future ability to be poked. Should this not be at the top of every woman's bucket list: Get Poked as often as possible, from whatever is available to ensure pokebility.
???
The world is NOT what we expected. Time to get real. Because there is not much time left.
Esther Perel has some great insight about these issues: "The State of Affairs" is a very important, and interesting book. The concept of total commitment to a marriage is a very recent concept. And it is not working.
We all need romance, and mutual non-sex relationships, and sexual encounters, regularly. And that often requires strangers becoming new friends.
But, being all-in for only one other human being for decades will create significant brain deformation, and consequently, regret, disappointment, and despair, of all the could-have-beens.
Perel explores the FACT that many many happily married people engage in fun with others. The marriage is great. But, it is not possible for that one person to satisfy all human needs.
One of my very close friends is a woman i met in '92. No sex. Just great conversation. My wife is not interested in talking about the topics Tricia and I explore. Is that "cheating?" No, that is being human.
I am sad for all the women who have wasted their lives taking care of those who she loves but whom cannot provide her with what they are missing because of their dedication to responsibilities.
An introduction to her thoughts:
JacarC
Level 8
Nov 1, 2018
1
I was the cheated on wife. I was good to him. We never argued. He cheated on me for the same reason he cheated on the two wives he had prior to me, as I found out after the fact, because he's a cheating dirt bag. Up until I caught him cheating, I had trusted him, for the 17 years we were married, to be honoring his vows. It turns out his vows were a lie. It turns out that lying came very easily to him. I was devastated. It was a year ago this month that I caught him cheating. It took me another month and a half to get him to move out, and another two months after that to divorce his dishonest ass. I'm still bitter. Now I have trust issues. If I couldn't trust the man I had believed in for 17 years, how can I ever trust any man? Infidelity is spousal abuse. It shakes a person to the core. There are all kinds of ways to alter or end a relationship without abusing trust and shattering the person you once claimed to love. Your cheating isn't about what your spouse is or isn't doing, it's about your character, or lack of it.
Deb57
Level 8
Oct 31, 2018
2
Sorry this happened to you. If you have not found it already, go to www.chumplady.com you will find people there who understand exactly how you feel. Take care.
If you are unhappy with the way your spouse treats you, how about discussing that with the spouse? Cheating on him/her is not going to change the problem, but it definitely adds another layer of strife onto an already problematic situation. If you're unhappy enough with your partner to start shopping for their replacement, have the guts to do the decent thing and end that relationship first.
Deb57
Level 8
Oct 31, 2018
1
Thanks for pointing out that people really need to mind their own business because they don't have the whole story or their own values are not compatible . No one needs to know the reasons why...unless they are one of the parties involved.
thinktwice
Level 8
Oct 30, 2018
4
No sex with others when you are married, period. All other considerations are excuses for breaking your vows...
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
Oct 30, 2018
1
@Stepmomofdragons I don't put much stock in following people when they jump off a roof. If my partner cheats, I leave... I don't start sleeping around and lower myself to his level. If you use what he does as an excuse to do the same thing, then you probably had that behavior in you all along. Be true to yourself is all im saying. If you don't want opinions, don't ask for them.
I was basically ignored for the last 10 years of my marriage (last 5 were completely devoid of sex or any physical affection). We went to counseling and additionally I spoke to him twice about how I felt. I was the only one putting any effort into our marriage. We have 2 daughters and at the time too much debt for me to feel I could leave. I was starved for physical affection, not just sex but hugs and non sexual touch as well. I sought that outside my marriage in order to try to keep my family together for my children. In hindsight I wish I would have left sooner, but I won’t apologize for what I did in order to keep my sanity
@Marcie1974 I understand, I read your response below. To me, your situation is totally different than someone cheating. You tried, you tried a long time, longer than I would have. Hope your life is better now ?
It is seldom black and white, especially when children are involved. Anyone who thinks that way is either inexperienced, naive, or stupid.
@Sticks48 name calling is not a valid argument...
@Cutiebeauty That is not name calling. There are inexperienced, naive, and stupid people. That is fact.
@Sticks48 whatever... That's what all name callers say...
@Cutiebeauty There is no whatever. Those people do exist, and it is not a black and white issue. Both of those are facts. If you have proof to the contrary, I would like to hear it.
@Cutiebeauty but technically I still “broke my vows.” You said no sex with others when you’re married, period.
@Marcie1974 I think it is also presumptive to assume that everyone's vows are the same or that there were even vows exchanged. A legal marriage does not require vows...just a license. The courts do not get involved in what happens in relationships...just the legal ramifications which mostly involve money and the care of children. Broken vows are in the eye of the beholder...not everyone has the same eyes.
@Sticks48 if it's not a black and white issue, then answers to the question are not 100% based on fact. It's a subjective topic not objective.. Therefore responses will be opinions, not facts. And everyone knows opinions are not based on fact, and therefore cannot be deemed stupid.
You use the terms inexperienced, naive , and stupid only in reference to people who disagree with your opinion. This op is entirely based on opinions not facts.
@Cutiebeauty These people exist. That is fact. That is not supposition. Just because you don't like a fact, it doesn't make it any less true.
@Sticks48 I never said these people don't exist.. Your reply is non responsive... You keep arguing a point that I agree with... And you ignore the actual topic, which is subjective... Lol.
@Cutiebeauty I wasn't commenting on the post. I was commenting on your reply.
@Stepmomofdragons I'm not speaking for anyone else, I'm just responding to the topic... My comments aren't directed at you personally... This is my view and I'm not implying that it should be anyone else's view.
@Bierbasstard cheating was/is not in my nature either. It is not something I ever thought I would do. But my basic need for human touch was not being met. Will I ever cheat again? I can honestly say with 99% certainty no. But I’m also not going to have anymore children and therefore it will be much easier to get out of an unhappy relationship.
The reason it's a black and white issue is because one of you is lying your ass off. If you brought the subject up with your other you will probably find its not only ok with them it's probably encouraged. Women are as likely to get bored with your sex as you are with hers but you'll never find that out until you open you mouth and talk about it. I find and know several women that think threesomes and same-sex encounters are perfectly acceptable but neither one of us would know that if one of us didn't have the balls to bring up the subject in the first place. You should try it.
Anonbene
Level 8
Oct 30, 2018
0
Because it is so good for the children to witness whatever dysfunction is going on PLUS infidelity?
Uhuh.
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Oct 30, 2018
0
People have agency. If a relationship is broken (for whatever reason) a person can work to fix it (communicate, go to counseling, whatever it takes) and if that does not work....they can leave (break up, move out, get divorced). To cheat is to be selfish. To be a cheater, you have to be a liar.
LizBeth
Level 7
Oct 30, 2018
1
I disagree, it’s not always that simple. Please see my reply below. I’m sure you’ll still judge me but maybe it will give you a little insight
I read your reply and I disagree (not judging you) with the way you decided to handle your undoubtedly difficult marital situation. I was on the flip side where I was the one being cheated on (while going to marriage counselling and trying to make things better). Cheating is abusive, period. It is lying to the person who's back you are supposed to have. It is stealing everything good from your partner (trust, love, memories). It is making a unilateral decision that affects not just you, but everyone else in your life (spouse, children, extended family, friends). Cheating is not a "mistake'. It is a conscious decision by the cheater to engage in a deception that has extreme repercussions and consequences for all involved. People fall in and out of love every day. But meeting someone you deem to be “better” is not an excuse for bad behavior. Falling out of love with your partner is not an excuse for bad behavior. Your partner being a shitty partner is not an excuse for bad behavior. If you want out of a relationship (marriage or otherwise)…. do it with honor and with honesty.
@LizBeth you are judging me but so be it. I did what I thought was the best decision for my sanity and to keep my family in tact.
You have some valid points. Keep in mind that this sort of situation does not always involve "spending time" with someone else to a male. It is often just sex for the sake of sex. Men do not have to have an emotion attached to cheating and therefore they sometimes do not look at it as cheating. A rich man may have a woman wanting a "sugar daddy" on the side. Sometimes he wants to come and see her for an hour. A poorer man may have money enough to go see a prostitute for an hour. The motivation in both cases is simply having sex with somebody else. It's a release that is sex for the sake of sex. This does not make the situation right at all, but our society teaches men that women are sex objects and pornography seems to back this up. Men often think with the wrong head.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Oct 30, 2018
0
@Stepmomofdragons agree, I had 2 men that we became pretty close emotionally and supportively
@Stepmomofdragons oh, I see. He's too old for his reply to mean anything. I'm too young for my reply to mean anything....
@Cutiebeauty It's amazing how some people think. My thinking has nothing to do with "generations" or what my folk taught me. I've been thinking independently for a very long time now. I bet you have too. 
@DenoPenno I sure have lol
My grandparents taught me very well...
Thank you for this post. Very soon after our children were born I became very low on my ex’s priority list. By about 10 years into the marriage sex was only 3-4 times a year and became even less frequent to the extent that the last 5 were completely sexless. No hugging or physical affection and no emotional support either.
About 8 years in I sat him down and honestly told him how I felt. Things got better and I became truly in love with him again. Then after about 9 months they slowly went back to the way they were. I double downed my efforts but to no avail. I had a bit of a breakdown in ‘09 and we went to marriage counseling. Same thing, marriage got better, I allowed myself to really love him, but after a few months I was forgotten. Couple years later I talked to him again. I know men don’t usually get hints so I told him what I needed. I wanted us to have a genuine conversation alone 2-3 times a week for 10-15 minutes and I needed him to touch me. Give me a hug, or when we’re watching the news put your leg against mine, hold my hand, anything! I didn’t even bring up the lack of sex. This time I guarded my heart until I saw some effort. I got nothing. Absolutely nothing.
At that point I considered my marriage over. But we had a lot of debt and I thought it would be selfish to get divorced and breakup my kids’ family because I don’t get enough attention. Seems trivial. Bought myself a vibrator and that worked for about a year but I missed and needed physical touch. So....I put a profile on Ashley Madison and eventually I found a couple FWB.
Eventually we filed for bankruptcy so the debt wasn’t an issue anymore. I realized I was so unhappy that I wasn’t being the best mom I could be so I finally told him I wanted a divorce. Thursday is the 1 year anniversary that the papers were signed by the judge. Honestly wish I would have done it 5 years sooner but hindsight is 20/20.
So thank you for your post and understanding it’s not always a black and white issue.
Marcie1974
Level 8
Oct 30, 2018
2
@Stepmomofdragons ummmm..i was the one cheated on...completely trusted him, wish I had a dime for every time someone told me what a "fine character" he had. Turned out I was basically living a Lifetime movie about just how dumb a woman can be! He was screwing everything not nailed down for Years, while I did all yard & housework, plus major DIY stuff, home cooking, sexy nighties, and we did what he liked to doin everything, , because I was "so lucky" to have this "fine man".
And here you come saying oh it's fine, he musta had a reason. Yeah, selfish, vain, and no empathy whatsoever! I was damn lucky not to catch a serious disease! Took me over a year of counseling to believe "the sky is blue" again, after he ran off with one of those MILF home-porn stars. (Complete with dog & donkey co-stars).
Should found out & dumped him a loooonnngg time before I did!
Cheating HURTS, even if you don't see it, there is Nothing lonlier than being in a "relationship" by yourself!
Your "explanation"/ excuses for it SUCK!
"Why do we never question the reason behind why people in married or long-term relationships might cheat"
Likely because they have been cheated on and severely hurt by it, and are unable to forgive.
hippydog
Level 8
Oct 30, 2018
1
@Stepmomofdragons is the forgive part that's important.. my exwife cheated on me. But when I was able to forgive and accept my part in it, it didn't bug me as much..
@hippydog I agree that no marriage is perfect. It takes two to make it work. But just because a marriage has issues, it does not give one party license to cheat. Hindsight is 20/20...there are things I could have done better in my marriage too....that does not mean that it was ok for my husband to f*** the office bicycle.
@LizBeth well said! Forgiveness my ass! Just keep the alimony coming & I will be having too much fun to remember you at all!
@hippydog kudos to you for forgiving and also admitting your part in the marriage not working. Sounds like you’ve learned and grown from the experience. I respect the hell out of that!
@hippydog Nope!
Watch/read Esther Perel's presentations. Cheating is increasingly NOT a result of relationship dysfunction.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Related Groups More
Memes R Us
3036 members
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.