Agnostic.com

28 5

At what point is charity necessary? At what point do you say NO?

I am fortunate I live in a 1st world country with free medical, free education and a generous welfare system. I personally have a problem with a high consumption life style so I don't live one. That is me, my personal choice, I don't push it on others. I get a kick out of being self sufficient so my expenses are minimal and as they reduce, I reduce my level of income. As of 1st January this year income has been halved as I now share it with my son who is taking up the lifestyle, so less work for me but we share the work and the income. We plan to live this year on 1/4 of the base pension in this country. We both perform LOTS of voluntary work in our community and have other causes we support with our efforts. Each week I get approached by people for money, basically beggars, people who get at least twice as money per week as I do, the last girl wanted me to go to an ATM to withdraw money to give her for transport, so she could collect a cash handout in another town,she was smoking while she was asking me. I am always polite when I decline, I try and explain I have no money to spare when I feel like telling them to sort their lives out and stop being a blight on society. But I don't. Then I always get the abuse and snide comments. To me it is not charity to give these people money, I see them as scammers. Many times I have offered to take them into where I work, we have a community pantry, we hand out food, we grow vegetables so people have access to fresh food. All they want is cash. People see me as tough and mean, they ain't seen nothing yet. Do you believe it is necessary to give just because people ask?

Rugglesby 8 Feb 7
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

28 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

5

Charity would NEVER be necessary if every person had their basic necessities of life met. Healthy food, clothing, housing, health care, and education are the five basic necessities. If every person born on this Earth had these from birth til death, we would come to peace.

Goat Level 5 Feb 7, 2018

I wish it were so, both way, I wish all had it, and I wish that would be an end to it, but greed is a problem. Wealth and poverty are relative, people always want more than their share.

True, but there would be the few whose heads are messed up. Well-off people can be messed up and mess up their children.

4

Oh, hell no! My neighbors would stand out in front of the Walmart with a sign that said "homeless, please help". They weren't homeless! And the woman died of a drug overdose. I am also a volunteer, and a blood donor, but the only hand out I've ever given someone was a man has a sign that said " please help, too ugly for porn." I gave him a dollar for originality! Everyone else is on there own!

Hahaha. That's great.

3

The biggest problem I have with organized charity is that if you give to one then it appears that they sell your information to everyone else and you become inundated with mail and phone calls because you have become a mark. That was my personal experience and because of it I have become more suspicious of anyone asking for aid. One organization that I get hounded by is the fraternal order of police. At least a call or two a week. Cops make triple what I ever made and have a pension, so why should they ever think that I need to support them as I live on SS.

gearl Level 8 Feb 7, 2018

Well, if you or in your household gives once, they'll keep begging.

3

I generally do not encourage panhandlers. I live in Sacramento, CA, in a low-middle class area. I own my home and purchased it recently. The "hood" I live in is quite a step down demographically so I see a lot of panhandling. They sit on the median at almost every intersection. I have also seen organized panhandling. I once saw them being dropped off at two different mall entrances by a van where they proceeded to take up stations under the marquis signs at the parking lot entrances. I certainly don't support career panhandling and prefer to help persons I know who are experiencing difficult times. I recently drove about 20 miles to fill the gas tank of someone I know and then took her to the grocery store and bought her some groceries. I did this using credit, and am not wealthy, but I want to help people I know are trying to help themselves. I will not help someone who thinks they should be provided for.

3

I think you have a duty to ensure that you and yours are provided for first. Otherwise you would end up begging yourself. However once thats been taken care of I like to give and regularly give to various charities. I feel lucky that im in a position to have a little surplus. ( I'm a Buddhist and giving (DANA) is kind of a requirement)
However i don't often give cash to individuals. I think people should give responsibly. So im not going to give money to someone to buy things that i can't approve of like drugs, alcohol, even cigarettes. So ill buy a cup of coffee or a sandwhich and give that to them
I was in India on holiday and you get approached by beggars in the street. i was handing out very small amounts of cash. An indian guy approached me and said that my money was probably going to a gang leader who had these people begging on his/her behalf. He told me that id do much better to give my money to one of the many temples as they cook massive meals and feed poor people everyday. Which was what i then started to do.

Yes. Poor cities do have pocket-picking and begging gangs. And the churches like mother Theresa's do nothing but keep them that way.

3

I have helped many people and it is difficult for me to say no. There are some people who will take advantage of me and it has affected the way that I react to people. I have to say no more often because I am not an ATM and I cannot help everyone.

2

With drugs being such a prevalent problem this may be why they need cash.

2

Whether I give or not depends on a lot of factors.
If I see someone out and I have a bit of cash that I don't have a predetermined use for and I haven't seen them refuse other offers of assistance I have given them cash. The life choices they make after that I make no judgements on but it is a one time deal I don't make second deposits.

I never have money, but one day when my son had given me $20, a woman came to the door in layers of clothes on a warm day. Certainly the picture of living on the street. Having no change, I gave her the 20. I have not regretted it. It felt good. It happened only because I was in the city. I no longer am.

2

I don't help humans because at nearly 8,000,000,000 and counting we are doing just fine and some. I haven't myself made any humans myself though I am guilty of habitat loss as I live in a house and drive a car etc. I do try to help endangered animals even though I think that's a lost cause.

awesome

2

I’ve developed a look so that when they ask they see my scowl then quickly leg it

2

No siree - folks like that are money pits. Scammers, as you say, so don't feel guilty about keeping your hard-earned money.

1

Charity is never necessary, and I'd say the point you've reached...

1

I don't think charity is ever necessary, but it can be a kind thing to do, if one does it without preconceived notions of what the receiver "should" do with it. I don't often give because I don't have a lot of money. When I do give, it's rarely to an organization. I usually give to individuals. Their attire, hygiene, looks don't matter to me, and I don't care if they're scamming me or not. When I give, I consider it a gift with no strings, and I do it for my own reasons.

marga Level 7 Feb 9, 2018

You should really study each organized charity before giving. Christians, esp, tend to just give because one is well-known. Some of those put a high percent of their money into administration. Some are badly run. Look before you leap, there.

1

Had this debate with a "Christian" right winger the other day, she says that it is more likely that the person you are giving to will spend the money on booze, drugs or cigarettes. Here is my thought on this. Maybe so, maybe even often this would happen. If you are giving money or time to charity and looking for the recipients to change their lifestyle, have some epiphany or otherwise mince down to unemployment and gain a job the next day I have some bad news for you-99% of the time none of this will happen. They will live their lives just as they always have for the most part, you will be feeding the same people for the next few years until events force them to move elsewhere. Business management 101 will tell you that 5% of Americans are unemployable, simple as that. There are many reasons for this but on fact still remains, they are people and Americans. I fed 63 of them last month at the community center with food I bought. You know what? 63 people went home with a full stomach. I feel good about that, I will try again next month.

I feel good when it is helping, our pantry serves about 200 people every Wednesday and they all have families, in addition to being the heavy lifter with all the setting up, I am also the community gardener, and the produce goes to people in the community along with what I donate from my home garden. Yet people who decline food and other assistance and get abusive because we rarely give cash gets my temper up. Why should we bust a gut to feed people addictions?

@Rugglesby like I said, if you are looking to change them, you won't. That shouldn't be your motivation. Charity is the act of giving, period. There are other venues for personal change, religion for example. This "I did this so you do that" is an example of religious thought. I don't know their story and unless they want to tell me it's none of my business.

@clarkatticus It is not so much I want to change them, although I do hope they change. My response is more, I don't want to give to those people for those reasons. I am happy to help those genuinely in need, but do not wish to support habits of others. Example is my mother, she has fed, housed clothed my brother all his life, even paid for hookers for him, thus freeing up all his money to buy drugs, she even pays his fines when he is caught, yet denies she is supporting his drug habits. I don't like to waste my time and energy, and yes, I do pick and choose who I would help, not very christian, but then I am not a christian. I don'y give for the sake of giving, I like to help (a little) but I prefer to solve problems. You know the old saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach home to fish ... and he will destroy a whole ecosystem" OK, the original version may be more apt. To be perfectly honest, I am not at all the caring generous person I appear to be, I have ulterior motives, by donating food via the community organisation, I draw people further away from my place, by teaching them to provide better for themselves I reduce the number of people needing hand outs.

And giving like this is fine. Doing it on your own should definitely be something you can afford. The richer most of the wealthy are, the less they give away just because.

1

Do not Ever give cash...if they are hungry, buy them a meal, and guide them to the food stamp office, or food banks, meal kitchens. If threadbare, take them to Wal-Mart or Goodwill. Homeless? Take them to a shelter...and etc. Making them less helpless will have long-term good outcomes for them. I find panhandlers that Say they need " money for food" when i offer actual food, mostly tell me to "eff off" because they want the cash for drugs. I then feel free to guiltlessly walk on.

That is pretty much what happens, before xmas it was a guy claim to be homeless and was begging for money for food, my work was 50 metres away, we hand out groceries and even complete meals, swags, clothing the lot, and he started abusing me when i offered to get him help.

1

Hell, no! Most people who ask for cash want cigs, alcohol, or drugs. People should only donate money to legit charities.

I keep dog and cat food in my car, to give to beggars. I NEVER give money.

And you’re not alone in your toughness. Trust me to react very unkindly when asked for money if I’m using my cane or have children with me.

Also, it’s becoming more and more accessible to ask for money. And people develop these attitudes of entitlement. Why should I support them? When they are capable. And the amount of selfish GoFundMe accounts. What happened to working for extra things? You’ll see someone wanting to get funds to throw themselves a party, right next to a family plea to help with a funeral. One is entitlement, one is needed and a worthy cause.

It really upsets me when disabled people beg. They get a paycheck. And they get services most homeless don’t.

I’m disabled, and been screwed after paying into ssi for nineteen years and only getting half what I deserve. I’ve had very rough spots in life, and have been homeless three times in three different decades in three different states. I’m homeless now, because I have three dogs and won’t get rid of one to fit a two dog only lease. But don’t feel bad for me. I have a 17 foot RV, a beautiful view out my windows from a spot I rent to park on my friends property, and plenty of warmth and food. I spend most of my money on the things that are important to me: internet, pot, high shelf dog food (spoiled shits), making/tinkering/crafting, and my grand babies. My point in this last paragraph is that I’m not talking from the outside, I’m talking from inside this group of people.

I also volunteer and donate a lot. In my community, and others. There is a lot of legit need out there—especially families. Children do not deserve to live without a roof, clean clothes and blankets, warmth, and food.

yeah, I just spent over 10% of my meagre annual income in one day on a sick dog, sadly, problem is not solved, but she is in no pain and very happy at the moment

I’m so sorry to hear that.
Can you give her thc or cbd?
You can even water down alcohol in a quick fix. That works great for chickens too, they love alcohol. Did that for one that broke her wing.

What’s wrong? @Rugglesby

Poor old girl has a number of different types of cancer, had a large sarcoma removed form her chest and a carcinoma and large portion of her ear removed, but she didn't take the anesthetic well, so not game to try again fro one on her eye. She should be ok this year barring any unforeseen, but it may be her last full year.

Hugs. It’s hard when a loved one is sick. @Rugglesby

Everyone should be allowed to spend on and live as they wish as long as they don't expect others to help without an unexpected need. That's when we carry each other's burdens, not just because one is foolish with money.

@Annaleda Don't give THC to dogs for sure, it is poisonous for them.

Only in large doses. And I unfortunately have a bit of experience with dogs and marijuana overdoses.

You can also treat dogs with infections with garlic, just not too often.

Or use preparation H original on animal injuries. It reduces swelling, encourages blood circulation, and protects the wound. @arnies

1

Oohhhh, I know exactly what you mean. You are like me only more so.

I don't understand people who see other people as a resource to support their self-centred existence.

From now on I resolve to demand, in advance, that anyone who asks for my help proves that they are working to get out of their problems.

That's what develops con-persons/families.

1

I don't think charity is necessary as in it's mandated by organizations (church, government, etc.), but I think there's a moral imperative to help out when one is part of a society. That said, you have every right to choose where you believe your time and/or money is spent, and I can understand your irritation at being cornered like that, so just ignore them.

I don't live in an area where there is a lot of panhandling, but we have some people begging at intersections which make sitting at a stop-light a bit uncomfortable. I choose to use my time and money helping people on a more one-to-one basis but I resent it greatly when I'm pushed to help someone I don't feel deserves it.

It's when I go into the city that I see beggars at intersections and going up and down medians.

1

Like you, I live in a country with free medical, education(to 18) and a good(ish) welfare state.

I do some volunteer work for my local community and some local causes - I help with the village gardening club that does the baskets and floral displays throughout my village - the things that I wouldn't expect should be funded by government.

I will not support large national charities that are collecting for things that should be provided from our taxes or other means. Charities like cancer research shouldn't exist. Drug companies make millions form the drugs and treatments developed. Age concern - again we should be providing for our elders who have worked and been taxed all their lives.

I do suffer a major cognitive dissonance though for one charity I have supported and raised money for consistently which is the local Air Ambulance. It should be funded by central or local government the same as the rest of our ambulance service (very different from the system in the states). But as a biker, I know many people whose lives have been saved by them and know that I may possible need their services in the future. The Air Ambulances around the UK are all funded totally by voluntary contributions and charity. If this money stopped, would the government start to fund it?

Most ‘cancer reasearch’ charities don’t even give the money to researchers. 😟

That is so unfair. Governments need some brains in to discern what should and should not be done with public money.

1

I rarely give anyone money. I prefer to give my time, that way I know what help they are getting, and they know I'm actually helping. Throwing money at most problems does nothing but create dependence.

1

There was a older man in Burnley Lancashire that I knew who was very sprightly and had decided to live on a very small amount per day he had no electricity or gas, got up when it was light went to bed when it got dark - In the daytime he walked and scavenged ate rotting fruit sometimes picked out of litter bins and looked for metal to weigh in when He got to £3.00 he stopped - he was the fittest person I think I ever knew - for his age and he was a beautiful soul. Scammed no one just totally self reliant.

A hermit not in hiding.

1

I have seen too many people that are scammers and refused to work when offered. Same on the refusing food ,wanting only cash. I say no to the begging and am sorry if someone really does need a hand

1

I agree with everything you have stated here and do the same thing although I live in the USA.

1

I just say " no ".

1

You say no to anything that doesn't feel right. Some people are scammers and some are legit. If you get the sense that someone is scamming then "no" is the correct answer.

Betty Level 8 Feb 7, 2018
Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:21760
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.