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LINK Men Say They Want A Smart Women...Until They Date One | I Heart Intelligence.com

Is there any validity to this Gentlemen? Asking for myself lol. ?

Capricorn 6 Nov 16
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11

Look, Capricorn: I think this is a fine thread and I am enjoying the responses, so far. There is value in it. I am not trying to piss in your cornflakes, so to speak, so please believe me when I say I bring this before you with no condemnation, nor judgment of any kind. I think this discussion is missing a core premise that is integral to the study at hand, and would lend greater dimension to it, as follows:

There seems to be a disconnect between the abstract, anticipatory experience (e.g. "Would you like to date a woman smarter than you?" ) and the concrete, lived experience (e.g. "How do you feel about this woman here, who scored X points higher than you?" ).

There are obvious social costs to saying one would not like to date a smarter person, and benefits to saying one would--particularly in a social/dating context such as this site. So how much honesty can you really expect from a question like that? And the above premise suggests a degree of self-deception or lack of insight--so even if people are being honest with themselves and others, their self-analysis is (reputedly, according to the study) somewhat likely to change under certain circumstances.

In keeping with the spirit of the study, I think it would be far more valuable and revealing to ask people (men, if you like) what their experiences of actually having dated a smarter person (woman, if you like) were like: Have you dated/married someone smarter than you? How did/do you feel about it? Do you seek out dates that are smarter than you? How did it feel when you found out a (potential) date/partner is much smarter than you thought? etc. Not would you/won't you, but how does/did it feel when.

Admittedly, this line of inquiry also deals with self-reporting (unreliable) in an intensely ego-fueled area (especially unreliable), and as such would be subject to the same class of vulnerabilities. But it think it might open the way, generally, to more useful information.

TL;DR: Ask not, "How would you feel if"; ask, "How did you feel when.

This is not the first thread I've thoroughly enjoyed your even keeled response to. Admittedly, I have yet to read the article. But I will. And probably won't respond. People like yourself, whose replies I appreciate whether I agree or disagree with, are why I maintain internet access. Keep on keeping on, yo. We don't know each other, so to be clear, this is sincere and meant with nothing but respect. Greetings, fellow human.

@Tampabrew Hail and well met, good fellow! "Even-keeled" is what we strive for here at the Stinkeye Holistic Institute of Thought (a.k.a. the Stinktank). 😉

No pissing on cornflakes here so no worries!

@TheAstroChuck I'd like to see the subjective, self-reporting elements eliminated or reduced, and replaced with objective measures like skin conductance, pupil dilation, heart and respiration rate, etc. But only in a better world, where childhood cancer and famine-reduction reseach, et al. are adequately funded first. Then we can work on building a better dating mousetrap. 😉

@TheAstroChuck Enclosed please find your application for admission to the Stinktank. We look forward to your future contributions!

9

"You need to dumb down your conversation," a man told me within 10 minutes of meeting. "Men are intimidated by your intelligence and class." I was appalled.

"Speak for yourself," I replied crisply. "Obviously, you are intimidated by my intelligence. I refuse to act stupid to mollify the insecure ego of a sexist man." SLAM DUNK.

Over dinner, I enjoyed baiting him. Previously he flew to Russia to find a subservient bride. "None of the girls would go home with me," he said sadly. He bitterly resented having a female boss.

I gave him a mini-lecture on the Civil Rights Act of 1964. A landmark civil rights and US labor law, it outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Previously, I taught this subject as a university professor.

That took the wind out of his sails.

After dinner, we walked across the road to a jazz concert as planned. I was deliberately raucous with my applause to annoy him as an uppity woman. By the end of the evening, he wasn't speaking to me.

"I refuse to listen to your feminist religion," he said in an email the next day.

"The last time I checked, feminism is not a religion," I replied. "You are a dinosaur. Although you are 58, you act like you live 200 years ago. Leave me alone."

That went well.

This....I will never dumb down...I want to be with someone who can elevate me as I do him...learning together for a lifetime...

Good for you and I hope you at least enjoyed the dinner and the concert despite the "company".

Ugh, men seem to feel like if you can articulate your words and have an opinion about something you're automically a feminist or a man basher, I had a guy tell me that he didn't want to date me because I corrected him and I'll be single forever because men don't like being corrected ?

You need a date selection software screening process! Your current process isnt working well. 🙂

I am sorry. What more evidence of an "ass" do you need than the "Russian bride" trip. I would like to believe that he is not a representative sample of my gender.

6

Intelligence has many components and many manifestations. I've dated men that indicated they were attracted to me because of my mind and I've dated men that spent way too much time telling me how intelligent they thought I was. My long marriage was to an intelligent man who also had an abundance of Common Sense which I sometimes lack. When things don't click, people always find a reason and I imagine most guys think it is much less hurtful to say you're too smart for me then too ugly.

I fully agree with the base of your argument but your closing observation really caught me off guard. I have never contemplated the, "you're too smart for me" apology scenario; The smarter, the better.

@NoMagicCookie remember I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about some of the other guys.

6

I only date smart women if I can help it; being dumb is a much bigger red flag to me. I can imagine that a lot of guys want to feel like they have the upper hand though, similar to the rate at which we typically avoid dating someone who makes a lot more money than us or is taller n more physically imposing than us (or say it doesnt matter and then it becomes an immasculation problem later.) Those are other conditions that I don't care in the least about. Smart successful women are genuinely sexier than the alternative to me and I couldnt feel less threatened, but Im fairly odd. Any secure guy won't care but there are relatively few secure guys. Never dumb yourself down for a guy but also don't go out of your way to brow beat him intellectually unless hes similarly competitive and it's done in a playful spirit. Alienating someone is never going to work, but if your default intelligence level is enough to alienate him hes doing you a favor by leaving.

Excellent advice

6

We could start by trying to establish what we think/understand intelligence is.

And he sinks a three from WAY downtown!!! Nobody saw that coming!!!

@stinkeye_a I guess I'll have to be patient here. How does your comment move the ball forward?

@IamNobody My reply to your comment above was meant as a compliment: a (basketball) metaphor for a sudden, unexpected achievement from a unique angle. 🙂

@stinkeye_a Thanks for the clarification. Not a big NBA fan as you can see ? .... It's always good to learn something new !!

@IamNobody Man you really threw me with "moving the ball forward"!! I wasn't sure if you got it or not!! 😉

@stinkeye_a Actually you're going to love this one.... The first time I read "tree" as opposed to "three" .... It does make sense now. Yup, getting old sucks, no doubt ???

5

The author of the link article asserts that some men say one thing and do another. This general type of behavior is so pervasive among members of all genders and in all spheres of human endeavor that we can safely place it in the realm of the ubiquitous and quotidian. That it is not uncommon in the realm of sexual relations should come as no surprise. Yup. People can be fickle. The author also acknowledges that not all men are like that. I would add that the same can be said for women.

My own observations lead me to conclude that people tend to seek out people of their own intellectual and physical level. That being said, men's egos do tend to be a bit more fragile. They are less likely to tolerate being shown up. It takes a real man to appreciate and be comfortable with his intellectual equal.

5

The article seems a bit of a muddle. They make the claim, then try to dismiss the claim by saying it was a single study of small sample size. And discuss other stories/articles saying the men do enjoy smart women.

That said (and as echoed below) - plenty of guys (myself included) enjoy the stimulation of intelligent conversation. I enjoy having ideas challenged, discussed with mutual respect. I know I don't know everything, so am eager to learn and hear stuff to broaden my knowledge.

4

Steel sharpens steel. I cannot date a dumb woman.

Buxx Level 7 Nov 17, 2018
4

I haven't had the best experience with this issue.

3

It has been the case in my experience. Most men don't like being challenged. That is what I do with my intelligence - I challenge people to think about the world in a different way. On the whole, I would say that intelligence also corresponds with independence of thought and of action. I have definitely had issues with men who don't want me to act independently of them. They say they want a competent, self-assured, intelligent woman - until they have one in their life.

This is true, I have lots of opinions about lots of things and men definitely take issue with that, I've also been accused of being too independent (not sure wtf that means) I'm a grown ass woman I should be able to provide for myself. It gets pretty exhausting dealing with men that's for sure

@Capricorn So exhausting that I find I don't have the energy or the temperament for the vast majority of them. I used to be okay with settling for those who wanted to mold me to their priorities without compromising and also belittle my intellect (in insidious ways), but that stage is far behind me. And I find there are very, very few left in the playing field.

3

Intelligence (and its twin sister, curiosity) is the central thing that has consistently attracted me and that have resulted in marriage.

I haven't had any regrets about being with intelligent women, either.

There are some things that tend to go with intelligence, sometimes, such as intensity or various forms of arrogance like being excessively opinionated. I've been lucky to find intelligent women who are also humble and kind though.

3

Ha ha ha... the headline IS really funny (peeple shuold lern to spel rite). And the author is... oh, a female. Uh oh. Go figure. But most of us still "dating" are looking for a "match". Some things (not all) need to be about equal. I suspect intelligence may be one of those things. The more-educated person doesn't want to have to dumb-down the conversation and the less-smart person cannot smarten-up over coffee. Mismatch. The real question might be, "Do men tend to want (and expect) to be intellectually superior to the lady?" Maybe so. Historically the men were better book-educated, with women at home with the kids starting as soon as age 16. But that seems to be turning around these days with more women graduating with higher degrees than men in some advanced fields. One more reason why it's getting harder and harder to find a real "match". Meanwhile, women have always been better (smarter) at some things and women have a tool that men usually do not... women's intuition... an awesome self-preservation device perfected over thousands of generations. Boiled down, the sexes are probably about equally "smart", but focused on different things. Men get all bent out of shape when women get smart(er) in what they consider to be men's fields of expertise, which I dare not try to list. 😉

What I typically come across with men is even when I'm not trying to sound "smart " I'm just having a general conversation, I somehow offend them and they'll instantly change the subject to something they are experienced in such as fixing parts on a car ??? at that point I'm like damn, I was just asking if you like comics books and super hero movies

3

I certainly would want an intelligent woman in my life.

3

It's not really a choice for many; smart women won't fall for their bullshit.

JimG Level 8 Nov 16, 2018

Yep, that's why I keep being single lol

2

I've had this conversation with girls who say, "Boys won't like me if I'm smart." (To clarify, by "girls", I mean maybe 8-15-year-old females.) I always tell them, the boys that don't like a smart girl are the stupid boys that you don't want anyway. You want a guy that's intelligent enough to appreciate an intelligent woman. Don't make yourself less because someone else is less.

I find I am almost exclusively attracted to smart, strong-willed, independent women. Looking back over 45 years, most of the women I have dated have had higher educational achievements than I had, going back to when I was 15 and dated a college student. Looking at my family, on average, the women were more-highly-educated than the men, so, as my grandmother would have said, I come by this tendency honestly.

So, I'd say, smart and talented and physically-active, outdoorsy, independent women, don't keep your lights under a bushel. Somebody here is looking for you......and if they are not, a fish does not need a bicycle.

2

Intelligence is my first qualification in a woman, but it's not my only qualification. Humor, humility and adaptability also really help. Those are the essentials I can name, the others are beyond precise description; things like compatibility, which we feel but mostly describe by metaphors. "Comfortable as an old shoe." "Two stones polishing each other." My question is if intelligence is really the dealbreaker. That would take some careful research to reveal.

2

I love an intelligent woman! What I don't like (from anyone) is for them to tell me how smart they are and want to offer up their degrees like they mean something. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you are smart... It means you have a degree. I have met many who have multiple or advanced degrees and they seem pretty dim intellectually.

These types remind me of who I deal with in sales training. I show up to train them and a few always want to tell me how good they are. I have learned through the years that those who feel the need to tell you how good they are.... Aren't too good!

Good god I agree, not even talking about intellect right now but it grinds my gears when a guy tries to convince me how much of a "great guy" he is rolls eyes if you were that great your ass wouldn't be single lol

@Capricorn whoa whoa whoa! As I a single guy I have to say I think it is definitely possible to be a good/great person while still being single! (Of course I know you were joking, and I can’t imagine ever saying “I’m a great guy” in a serious manner, but maybe it cut a little close to home! Haha)

2

My wife is smarter than me in some areas and I'm smarter than her in others.

Perfect balance!

2

Have had some flings with lasses who weren't the sharpest knives in the draw. But that was more about mutual lust.
I've had four long term relationships in my life, and each of those ladies had... wit. Not just smart, but quick on their feet conversationally. My darling soon-to-be-ex-wife (we're separated, but not divorced yet) is a university lecturer in neuroscience.
For me? It's not important, it's essential.

2

Not enough information to know about the date that occurred in the article. It could be as simple as he felt that he had nothing to offer her. Some men can't handle a woman they feel dumb around. Superficially speaking maybe she was to pretty.

2

86% Say they want a smart woman, so likely you'll get the same relative response when you ask the question here. It doesn't mean that they will like it once they are dating one.

Personally I'm not looking specifically for an intelligent woman. I do find intelligence attractive, however it's only one quality and doesn't make up the totality of a person. If someone has other qualities that I prefer, I may still enjoy her company although she is slightly less intelligent than I normally prefer. The trait I value the most is character, everything else is a sliding scale in comparison.

2

I happen to enjoy a smart woman?

2

Well, this is somewhat true. I've always told myself that I am not going to be superficial. BUT, I've dated at least one very smart woman, but there was no physical attraction. I totally enjoyed the conversation, and was impressed with her intelligence. But it didn't work. It is somewhat disconcerting to me that that physical factor still mattered to me. I've listed various unoriginal qualities I am looking for in a date/mate, without mentioning physical attractiveness, on various profiles. But at the end of the day, that factor played a large part.

That makes me wonder. If a date were to reject me, would I rather be rejected for my looks ("sorry, you are not hot enough for me) or for the lack of other qualities ("ugh, you are boring" or "you are too dumb to understand me" etc). I come to suspect that the former plays much bigger role than people admit (I suspect this because I had to admit this fact about myself...)

I am as shallow as the next guy, but the looks alone isn't enough. With all other things being equal, I'd rather date someone who is smarter than me (well, she is going to have to take care of me in my old days! LOL!) than someone who isn't....

2

I think it works both ways, I have dated women who were physically attractive but just not that bright or even just average and it is like having a conversation with an echo chamber. My wife is very intelligent but she does find me a bit annoying sometimes because she doesn't always keep up in areas of special interest to me. It's always a compromise in any relationship and I can say one thing with certainty, I wouldn't want to be with someone exactly like me, the imperfections I accept in myself are things I probably wouldn't feel the same about in someone else.

1

This article is a bit insulting. I am strongly attracted to smart women and tend to only date intelligent women with high aspirations. Smart is sexy. And, like the article says, why would I want to date someone who is intimidated by my intelligence?

More importantly, about midway through the article, the author invalidates her entire premise:

"Finally, consider that the sample size was pretty small: only 105 guys were intimidated by a woman with more intelligence than her own. Yes, that's 105 guys. Consider, though, that there are 151.8 million guys in the United States alone."

This is an admission that the study defending her claims is based on a statistically insignificant number of people. Its like surveying just one classroom to make a conclusion about all middle school students.

Buxx Level 7 Nov 16, 2018

So in other words the article does not apply to you because intelligent women don't bother you?!

@Capricorn I am saying the article lacks credibility. Both the title and section titles display a clear prejudice. The author then vaguely cites only one journal article supporting that prejudice. She admits it is based on a statistically insignificant sample size but then provides no other support for her claim that men are intimidated by intelligent women.

It would be different if she supported her claim with multiple research articles from multiple sources. This however looks like cherry picking (omitting and ignoring what doesn't support your claim). So, I cannot take her argument seriously.

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