Dating the religious.
So I met and found myself attracted to a woman recently. I haven't directly addressed religion with her yet, but there are indications that she is more than nominally religious -- as in, she seems to at least sometimes go to church.
All the same, she seems interested in me, and we have an extensive next date set up. I realize that there's a risk that when she finds out I'm an atheist she might go screaming for the hills, so I'm hoping she finds enough things about me to like before she learns this fact such that she decides to stick around a while.
Any thoughts on how I might break this to her? Any thoughts on whether the relationship is necessarily doomed? Particularly interested to hear from other non-religious folks who have been able to form and sustain good relationships with religious partners.
From person experience, I dated a girl who was christian and it was awful because every time I talked to her about something she would include religion by citing a passage from the Bible and then we would argue all the time. Never again am I dating a religious girl. They just want to be right and make you think youre wrong.
This is puzzling to me.
You're worried about what she'll think of YOU?
I'd tell/hint/imply strongly that I'm a "nonbeliever" right away. If you met her online, your stance should already be on your profile, to eliminate the religious nuts.
There's no fury like the fury of a religious woman feeling "tricked." If she's religious, you've dodged a bullet. If she doesn't care, then you've lost nothing.
Certainly not going to be dishonest with her. (Or anyone else I might date.)
I agree with our little bird. I'd bring it up soon. The longer you wait, the more you're going to stress over it. It's been my experience people don't usually listen to relationship advice. Good luck!
That's a date #2 admission, IMO. Hope you didn't book a cruise...
LOL!
I'm attracted to her, yes, but I'm mindful of not jumping the gun.
I could never do it with anyone more than religious in name only. Maybe she is like that, you don't know yet. Just let it come out as it may come up in your conversations. Don't assume it will be a problem as many who are religious, don't really believe strongly. Good luck!
My mental construct is that there are a significant number of people who are "Culturally Christian," meaning that they identify as Christian to signal to others that they are generally moral people, and adhere to most mainstream cultural and social norms. If they go to church it is largely for social support. And with respect to actual belief in the divine, they may very well have never given it serious consideration.
Does that describe this woman? I don't know, we haven't had a formal date yet. My instinct, and I see at least some support for it here in the comments, is to let that ride until either she brings it up, it comes up organically in conversation, or until the second date, and at that point be honest about myself. Your comment seems to be partially in line with that.
...Although I also appreciate and am considering different points of view! Thanks, all, for sharing your thoughts.
Religion is what one makes of it. To some, it is literal, life and death, and if you aren't on their "team" belief-wise, they'll try to beat you into conversion or will demonize you. I would naturally avoid those people like the plague. But some people who identify as religious are more metaphorical about it; or at least aren't dogmatic. Personally, I can live with that. There are asshole atheists just as there are Christians. How caring and respectful someone is matters a lot, often more than their grasp of factual science.
What I can't live with is someone who refuses to have honest discussions about their beliefs for fear of disagreement. I can't live like that. You can find meaningful and touching reasons to care about someone when they open up and share what motivates them, their fears, hopes, life lessons, etc, and when they listen to you do the same. You don't have to absolutely agree on everything. But if you can't even talk about things of personal importance to you, you are accepting that you will never really know each other on any genuinely deep level. Bleh. What's the point.
I had a Roman Catholic boyfriend for a few months. He would talk, but then would steer away from some topics. I eventually pushed, because I wanted to know where we stood with life outlook on a variety of things, and he wanted to maintain neat little role-play of the happy, harmonious couple. We ended up splitting over politics, not religion. He was too conservative. He supportive politicians that were horribly damaging to the lgbt community, showing he ultimately cared more about his property taxes than about social justice. I couldn't stomach that.
I'm sorry to hear about the unpleasant split with your boyfriend. I hope it was pleasant while it lasted. My initial thought making the post was roughly (and hopefully) what you're describing: this might be a matter upon which we can not necessarily agree if the rest of the picture feels right. I appreciate your focus on what elements in the picture are the truly important ones. Best of luck to you in your search!
If you have a REAL connection in other ways (very deep ones), then it could work. That being said, I don't believe in forcing a relationship based on initial attraction, then find out you're with the wrong person. I wish you luck either way!
Religion, or any spiritual belief is a very personal choice. It should not be anyone elses business what you believe in or don't believe in. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that sometimes. When the subject comes up I usually tell people I am not religious. That should be enough to satisfy their curiosity. Believing or not believing doesn't necessarily make a person good or bad. It's what is in your heart that makes you who you are. I knew an Evangelical lady once. She was brainwashed into believing no matter what commandment she broke, what sin she had committed, Jesus would forgive and save her. That convenience permitted her to break every commandment she knew of. Yet, she didn't like a person who wasn't a christian.
Everybody is different. I was married to a christian. She knew I didn't have a religion. We've had a wonderful and happy marriage for over 50 years before she past on. So, you never know.....Good luck with your lady friend.
My condolences on your loss, but take joy in a happy marriage that lasted half a century. A remarkable achievement!
If it were me, the next time she mentioned anything close to the subject of religion, I'd give the classic, "Oh, I'm a total atheist," and see how it went.
I will date people who are religious, if they're not overboard. But I'm not going to sugar coat my stance to appease them, at all, which usually means it's never discussed.
Eh. I think it's too early really. When you get more serious you will have a better idea of if the church is her belief or simply her community. There are churches out there that focus far more on community than theology.
Hell, with my late husband I went to church every week (and pushed him to go as he always felt better going) and they welcomed me even though they knew up front I was an atheist.
I wasn't obnoxious about it and they were glad to see me anyway. Good people and I doubt they are the only ones.
This is an interesting story -- if I understand correctly, you went to church to support your theist husband and to enjoy the social fellowship the church offered, notwithstanding your own lack of belief. That's... that's kind of awesome, really.
Equally as awesome is the parishioners welcoming you despite knowledge of your atheism.
@ErikGunderson awwww...thank you! This was a Methodist church and as I understand it the Methodists commonly care more about being good humans than about bludgeoning you with sanctimony.
But I did learn that being in church may simply be a form of community or therapy rather than belief in fairy tales.
I believe in honesty in all aspects. I do not think I would be able to maintain a relationship with someone that did not have the same values/belief/non-belief as myself. All you can do is be honest with her and tell her before you both invest feelings and time. You may be surprised. A lot of people go through the motions because that's what society expects of them. At least being upfront about yourself will prevent heartache and disappointment later on down the line. jmtcw!
Why bring up politics or religion on a first date at all? I am pretty sure she will not, and you risk being thought of as heavy-handed or overbearing if you do. Unless she asks directly (indicating she is probably not forvyou!), let it be.
I suppose it really depends on how she deals with her faith, I.e. privately, trying to convert all the time or sticking some god thing at the forefront all the time and how you deal with her having any kind of faith. If you can have an 'each to their own' attitude you should hopefully be able to spend time on the things that matter about you and her developing a relationship. If it really doesn't bother you, you should always be able to bat it away with 'I'm still dealing with certain aspects of religion' or 'I haven't had much luck with it, you clearly have' that kind of thing. It could well be seen as a cop out but maybe faith/non faith really doesn't matter very much with both of you.
I don’t think that atheist/theist relationships can work. At some point she will have to choose between you and her deity. Maybe you can help her with rationality, though. I know that I have no interest in being with a theist. Not for more than one or two encounters, at least, and I’m not in the market for that. It would depend on your motives, as well. Sounds like you are not after a one nighter or short term. But it’s all your call. No one can transfer others’ experiences to your life. Hell, maybe y’all will work out. Just a decision you have to make.
I tell anyone that I am wanting to get to know, especially if they indicate that they are religiously inclined, that I am an A-theist pretty soon after we have met and spent some time together. Would you with hold the fact that you are married, HIV positive, etc until they have "found enough things about me to like before she learns this fact such that she decides to stick around a while."
The most important thing I'm finding, as I'm getting myself back in the dating scene, is that, despite differences, is there room in a potential relationship for both of us to put each other first? If how someone is makes them a better person to be with me, then okay. That being said, there are deal-breakers. I can't be with someone who will judge anything about me that they disagree with. Loving someone especially in a romantic relationship means loving everything about them, even the stuff I don't like. All I can say is you need to feel your way through it and see if her religious beliefs would be a deal-breaker.
I basically only date religious people, there isn't much choice for me. My lack of belief is a problem as often as it isn't but I recently lost out with a very smart, driven, pretty woman I was (am) very attracted too because she's turning to her faith for comfort with some problems and can't deal with my lack of faith even if I'm not critical of hers.
I hope it goes better for you.
Mmmmm, you have an opportunity, here. You could show her how much of a FUCKING MAN BABE you are then break down the walls of her faith-based prison and set her FREE.
I've done it before. *shrugs
Wear a shirt with non-religious on it or another non-offensive but clear shirt.