Fighting to have the same choices as the majority/powered class is absolutely not the same thing as lacking the courage to exercise choices already at your disposal. I am rather astounded that you cannot see the difference.

Further, as there has yet to be any kind of racial or gender equality to date, I would tend to agree with you about interpreting the meaning of the word.

And here is where it gets brutal. You seem to be implying that boys/men can only thrive in a system where women subvert their development, and the development of their daughters for the success of men. It's utter balderdash to think men are that weak.

@DoctoralZombie First, women are the majority - so let's get that fact clear off the bat.

You are right, and there shouldn't be. There is very significant difference between men and women, but I would argue that there is equality in opportunity for women. In fact, there are actual laws that give preference to women at the expense of men.

Finally, no, I am not implying that at all....that is you projecting your sexist feminism on my POV that equality is just that equality. When I see an educational system that caters to the way girls learn, and expect boys to accommodate that structure, I do see overt sexism in education. When I see men enrollment in colleges due declining, I see how this sexism in the classroom is affecting the male community. When I see high death, illness, suicide rates b/c men are working dangerous and labor intensive jobs b/c of a sexism education system, I again see the results in society. I want my daughters to have a fair and equal opportunity to succeed, but not at the expense of a social construct that is moving to punish or marginalize my grandsons or great-grandsons.

@jondspen First, check your sex ratio facts, and consider things like natural birth rate and gender specific abortion and then get back to me.

Don't like female teachers? Blame the system that devalues traditional female jobs of which pre-secondary education is one. After all, the male power structure created that problem, too.

And if by sexism against males in secondary education you mean creating an environment where students are free from the harassment and assaults that are often associated with males, then I cannot follow you there. Sorry.

Bias in college admissions? I call balderdash on that, too. Young women are are applying to university in droves, and excelling in higher education once they get there. Admissions people I know want a 50/50 male-female population on campus, so have to accept a greater percentage of men who apply to meet that ratio. So see, it actually favors men who bother to apply. Gotta love affirmative action, amiright?

@DoctoralZombie I did...did you? [en.wikipedia.org] I assumed you were talking about the US and/or world population stats...not China or Saudi Arabia. And BTW....you want to talk about gender specific abortion, in the US, you can attribute that 100% to your female sex (which is still majority female).

No, I was talking about a curriculum that is skewed to the way the female brain learn and processes information, and the fact that in all areas of K-12 education, men are way less than 50%. [aaeteachers.org] But I guess THAT little fact isn't something the feminists want to address when talking about their version of "equality". I would argue that complaining about boys behavior in the classroom that is geared toward teaching girls, such that they are then put on unneeded medications would be considered harassment and assault. But once again, it's boys - so who cares about that, right?

You deny the findings of a left leaning research organization?
[pewresearch.org]

"Girls tend to do better in high school, and thus have higher test scores and grades which get them accepted into college." This is a DIRECT result of the feminist slanted education system, and is directly responsible for a bias in admissions. Don't twist the situation into an argument that college admissions are turning boys away based on possession of a penis, but understand the argument is there is an education system that favors teaching toward girls, and as such, boys grades suffer, and in the end, admission rates suffer for males.
[sites.psu.edu]

And while the second article doesn't give any references, I will assume it's correct - at least as some colleges. Considering the admission rates of males is dropping, it does't appear this affirmative action to admit less qualified males over more qualified females is happening that much (otherwise the statistic wouldn't show a decline in male enrollment). So let me ask you, even at the places it is happening, is this far, equitable, or the type of society you would want to live in? I believe in meritocracy, not sexism/racism to fit some social agenda to accommodate the least qualified candidate. To quote the article, "People should be admitted to a college based on academic achievement and potential, not gender." I would also argue that K-12 education not set up a system to favor one sex's learning proclivity over another.

Well...I raised my two daughters as a single father, and saw first hand the sexism in the family law courts. And not just toward me. I actually had two other male friends who were raising their children, and they experienced the same sexism, in completely different courts, in completely different parts of the country. Maybe anecdotal, but three men, different ages, different races, different sex of their child, were consistent treated with disrespect. Non-custodial men routinely walked out of court after being berated for being $2-3k behind in child support, threatened with losing their driver's license and being thrown in jail. All three of us saw the non-custodial mother treated with pity, and told that she needed to pay support, but the court is sympathetic how much of a financial burden it must be, and to just do the best she can - in fact, we can get you some counseling if you need it. Shouldn't sexism be a bad thing, regardless of the sex?

@jondspen as someone who helped a divorced dad get sole custody of his daughter through the court system, I have not experienced what you have.

@DoctoralZombie Again, our experiences are anecdotal - but if allowed, I think most would agree my 3 to 1 ratio of experience would out weigh yours. However, that is a moot point, b/c it is anecdotal. Child support and child custody statistics are not anecdotal though. Mothers are far more often given custody (80-85% if I remember my stats correctly). NCM are also more likely to not pay, or have leniency in payment far above what is afforded to NCF.

[fatherhood.org]
[madamenoire.com]

@jondspen If anecdotes don't matter don't use them. But if you use them, I will too. Fair is fair, right?

As for the " tender years doctrine," also a male bias created by a predominantly male dominated justice system. Own it rather than blame it on feminists.

Your assertion that women always get custody is disputed; there is evidence that when men got to court and fight for custody they are as successful as women. But, most custody decisions are settled out of court.

As for child support? If it is owed you sue for it. Failure to stand up for your children in this situation is not a feminist problem, either.

@DoctoralZombie " tender years doctrine" - so women can't be lawyers, judges, or sit on juries? So these women granted custody can't stand up and say, "No, their dad is in a better position to support the kids day to day, so I will be happy with visitation". Do you really expect me to ( 1 ) accept that women are just as capable as men yet ( 2 ) are consistently incapable of standing up against men and male bias? Which one is it?

No, you are wrong. EVERY divorce and custody case is heard by a judge, and both parties are represented. Don't twist it like men don't even bother showing up, that is why there is a near 85% custody rate. And again, wrong, custody decision are not settled out of court - every case has to go before a judge and be ruled. Now maybe men agree, but in my experience, that is b/c their lawyer is telling them that there it's a waste of time and energy to fight a sexist system. Who the hell would try and fight a battle they are 85% sure they are going to lose?

Yea...I did sue for it. And consistently mom was given a pass. After 1 year, just 12 months, after $10k in support was dissolved and she started with a zero dollar arrange, she was another $5k behind, and the judge said that she was keeping up with support payments and not behind. And guess what, my other three custody fathers...when through the same shit, in different courts, in different states. No offense, but sounds like you don't know WTF you're talking about on this one. But you're right, and I did say the same...that is anecdotal and not guaranteed factual. Family law child support statistics don't lie though...which I have provided reference to.

@jondspen Nope. Not true. Mine was settled out of court. I never had to go in front of a judge. All paperwork. Dropped off for signature, done.

Tender years doctrine is old school and you know it. It is prime example of misguided male bias that hurts society as a whole.

The one female family court judge I have experience with thought it was stupid, and happily gave custody to...wait for it... a man! Whoohoo!

There are laws everywhere about who and how much child support should be paid. There is also some level of discression allowed to judges. Could you possibly concede that just because the judge reduced her responsibility to you does not mean there is a widespread agenda to punish men for taking care of there kids? Maybe a better attorney could have gotten you in front of a different judge, who knows.

Don't be bitter.

@DoctoralZombie Well...maybe it's different in Kansas than in California, Texas, and Tennessee, but in these states, during the divorce you are in front of a judge. If you are not, then at least both attorney's are present during the hearing. Still, it was heard by a judge, and settled in court. Not like you two just came to an agreement and it was signed/witnessed by a POA.

"Tender years doctrine is old school and you know it" sure, I will agree the concept is ridiculous, but I will not agree it is not still the norm. And it's actually an anti-male bias.

The female family court judge I had experience with ruled against many past male judges, ignored the history of failure to pay child support by my ex, and also ignored both my daughters where sexually molested due to mom's abandonment and irresponsibility when I was in Okinawa. But since she was a woman, she was obviously more qualified to be a parent b/c she was born with a vagina than a dick. Don't like to put my dirty laundry out there, but seems unless a man does, he is assumed to not know WTF he's talking about. Dealing with the abuse and neglect from both a mother and the system gives me a right to be a little bitter, and try to clue people in that women are not the perpetual victim as believed.

Suie, I will agree there are laws - I am saying in family law it is blatantly obvious there is a bias on how those laws are enforced. And that's not opinion, that's statistical fact.

Don't be a feminist patsy who ignores research data.

[listverse.com]

Yes...I do stick to my agenda - seeing the truth and fighting against bullies. I did in in Somalia when war lords were bulling the people, I did it with my daughters when they were bullied by sexism, and now I am attempting to fight against sexism against males, so my grandsons and great-grandsons are not raised in a culture that villainies or marginalizes them for being born male. Yet again, all you can do to case personal and character insults instead of making a logical and reasonable point.

"Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of SEXES." - [en.wikipedia.org]

Notice it doesn't say women. It's stated goal is equality for all, in regards to any and all sexual discrimination. I would say I do agree with you on the economic burden of US families though. That needs to change, but won't. Can't have people free of the monetary system to have time to think, read, or become independent.

So you ignore all the statistical data, and men are just a deficient sex. OK....good to know you're a sexist.

@jondspen Did you pay any attention to what I said at all. Probably not.