i am not a believer, so i can & will not answer your question; just to point out something about belief: if i would want there to be a god, but have no scientific or other evidence of a god existing, then, & only then will i need a belief in such a god. would i have knowledge of a god existing, on the other hand, belief would become superfluous. i understand myself as an agnostic (i have no knowledge of a god existing), as well as an atheist (i do not believe that a god exists).

precisely, @Davesnothere

I find I can agree with anyone about 95 present of things we discuss upon. That 5 percent of disagreements is a bitch. When the Religious come you, like this site. You have a big advantage to educate them of your way of thinking. If you don't like bebates, just say no, if you don't want to.

Above, I mean, don't like debates

I agree with CatByrd 100%

But I am a "true believer"- I believe in reality- so obviously that negates religion! LOL

@Diogenes, i, on the other hand, do not have to believe in reality (or anything else, for that matter); i experience it sensually every single moment of this life. i feel for you.

@walklightly You "don't have to believe in reality"- and I "feel" for you!

I agree. Why would they want to be here. Unless to troll, or possibly they believe but are still conflicted in some way. Doesn’t agnostic actually mean that you aren’t sure? Atheism is more adamant that there is no god.

It seems like I may have written about this before, but I see no problem with refuting and putting up a good argument for our non-belief. Something I do find strange is that part of the profile choices are "open to meeting men/women". That seems to make this website a dating or place to hook up site. When anyone mentions something "dating" related, there is plenty of replies. I'd much rather read a thoughtful debate that defends atheism.

@SACatWalker Who's Hell, Which Hell, Where the hell is that Hell?

@SACatWalker ROTF!

Ah but, the good thing that comes from exposure to people who have opposing opinions/beliefs to your own, is that it provides an opportunity for growth and a re-examination of your own belief system, and knowing why you believe what you do.

@Melind
No agnostic means you believe in some of the history or stories being told by the bible but certainly not blinded by the light.

What did you mean by "hell"?

The term "agnostic" absolutely does not mean you necessarily believe in some of the history or stories in the bible. I've literally never heard it used that way, until now. In general use, it does usually refer to someone who isn't sure whether or not a god exists, whereas "atheist" tends to be used to refer to someone who is more sure of themselves. Those are bad definitions though, I think.

I strongly prefer the following definitions: (A)gnostic -- with/out knowledge (of god/s). A(theist) -- with/out (belief in) god/s. They're not mutually exclusive. Personally, I'd call myself an agnostic atheist most of the time; I don't hold a belief in god/s, but I'm not sure that none exist. A gnostic atheist would claim to know that no gods exist. An agnostic theist would claim a belief in god/s, but not knowledge, and a gnostic theist would claim to know that god/s exist. Yes, I think I've got that right.

@Graeme the definition of an agnostic, according to the dictionary, is "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God."

Welcome Alliegirl - I think you're echoing what the majority feel - I hope the Admin is watching.

Hello Alliegirl, That you for mentioning "respectful." I've always had a problem with people who think I should respect their beliefs - even if they are fundamentalists and represent everything I oppose. I don't think the Constitution says I have to respect anything (I haven't read it lately; I may be wrong). I have to TOLERATE their beliefs (as long as they are not truly evil, nazis, etc.). I will not respect beliefs that encompass racial bigotry and supporting a thug like trump.

I don't think the theists who want to join us are searching for truth - wouldn't they be calling themselves "agnostic" if they were? If they have questions, we can refer them to authors who have already anwered their questions - Dawkins, et. al.

@LIB75002 - I would go further : I certainly don't respect their beliefs, or even tolerate them - all I do is acknowledge them. End of.

@Agnostic1 - that's a great word. I'll probably start using it now instead of tolerate. Thank you

We actually need to be up against f2f with religious people all the time in order to refute their arguments and so them a more compassionate less negative way off living without having to preach or argue

Allie, would you "respect" the belief that the world was flat? And we can go on forever in the 'book of lies'. I have no respect for religious fools- or secular ones either.

@TheMiddleWay it's like the bullet kills people- but the gun has nothing to do with it. People should disrespect Trump's ideas- but Trump has nothing to do with the blather that comes out of his mouth. Is there more of your ideas? Ya, people in stone houses should not throw glasses.

@Diogenes I wouldn’t respect the belief, but I would try to be respectful to the person no matter how much of a “fool” I may think they are. You have you’re way of being, I have mine.

@Alliegirl Sometimes things get confusing on here; I was responding to the person above. If a person is leading a decent life- it is absolutely none of my business whether they believe in fairy tales or not. I agree with you 100%. And there are too many things in my own life that I wish I had the power to take back.

@AncientNight I stand corrected and agree.

Welcome Alliegirl! Keep on posting!

@Diogenes
How about, "the world is perceptually flat in a spherical way"?

You can respect a person’s right to believe what they will and respectfully disagree with them even if you don’t respect the particularl belief that person holds.

@Draco Fair enough! Nobody ever let a wolf among his sheep herd without a loaded gun on reserve, lol!! I welcome the Admins' scrutiny! Be well!

Alliegirl you make an excellent point ?

I concur.

Same.

I would not defend but point out flaws and atrocities in scripture. I am not a Christian! There are many believers and many with doubts and open to an honest discussion on the authenticity of their faith and the Bible. Let them ask, I have answers. Sorry I did not make my self clear.

The religious have a blocking system for turning you away at the pearly gates AND further for condemning you to absolute eternal fire. Why sink to their level?

@Mcflewster I don't mind having conversations with believers. I won't put up with being harrassed by someone who wants to convert me, neither here nor in real life. It's the latter type I was referring to in my comment, and the consensus seems to be that that is the type who would probably join this site.

@bingst Fine but why do you get harassed. Are they winning?

NB this is not a battle but is concerned with our future and how soon we get to where you want to be

I think your right. I have a hunch that a religious person who joins this sight would be pretty sure about his/her position, and probably would be a nuisance.

@KentTorch "many Christians with doubts", I don't think so; that would take a little thought. The ones that do terminate religion, many are very angry that they have been coned so badly; that everything was there in plain site, and for some reason they didn't pay attention to the obvious.

That makes me do a double take. Your choice of vernacular.
As follows "They reject that agnostics and atheists are just as steadfast in their beliefs as they are in their Christian belief."

Like telling me you have a fying car, SAY WHAT?!

Atheism has no beliefs, it is a NON thing. By adopting Atheism one does not gain anything, especially some set of beliefs, they perhaps shed one they did hold, a theistic set.
Agnosticism is addressing an entirely different question, one about esoteric, revealed knowledge of some God orother.

SO how can any Atheist be steadfast in something which has no beliefs to be steadfats in?

Rather, your meaning is you are NOT convinced their religious tales are true and valid, you are NOT sold. By stating that you are just as steadfast in your belief in atheism, you have turned Atheism into another belief system, which is precisely what many fundamentalist sects argue that it is, or want it to be.
Then they can argue against that.

When you do not use such terminology they are truly stuck with the impossible task of trying to prove what they do believe, which cannot be done.
That effort makes them realize (sometimes), that it cannot be done, which makes folks think "Why do I believe this?"

@Leutrelle while I AM sure in my beliefs, I also realize that what I personally believe is not acceptable here and therefore, counter-productive to discuss. What is most interesting to ME for being here is hear from all of you your stories and what unkindness, hypocrisy and inappropriate comments that Christians have hurled at you that have deeply hurt.

In order to build a bridge, I feel I must hear the whole stinkin' truth. After all, I may have said and done the same things without realizing it, and I want to stop doing it, whatever it is.

I do respect the valid misgivings many of you have, however, and realize that centuries of mistrust won't be erased for a long time. If I step on toes, just let me know and you'll have my sincerest apology

Rest assured, I'm also NOT someone trying to write a book, either.I'm only here to listen and learn how to be a little more open-minded, more tolerant, and more sensitive to others. Peace to all on your journeys.

Maybe, just maybe, from all of the madness of almost all religious people ... they might just make a statement that would give a glimmer of consideration. And isn't that why we are here? To be open enough to discover the truth for ourselves?

I agree. I'm new too but I also think it's going to be pretty hard to actively keep them out. I suppose unless they are causing a problem their really isn't a need to bother over it.

garlon999: No, I'm here to meet non-religious people so I don't have to have those damned discussions!

It bears pointing out that there is no universally accepted definition of "religion", and there are many people who consider themselves religious who do not believe in gods, nor in anything supernatural. Those folks--like me--belong here as much as anyone else.

@catdogartlove me too I really can’t even tolerate that BS, even driving past a church pisses me off, knowing all the fools inside are sucked in, brainwashed and giving their hard earned money to this bullshit. There is so much wrong with all of it!

@Funeralgirl Glad I'm not the only one who feels like that, I really do resent churches putting up 15 foot posters in garish colours announcing to the world that basically conforming to idiocy and prejudice is somehow a good thing.
I particularly hate having to explain to my kids why some building have huge frightening statues of a half naked bleeding dying man outside of them.

I sorta agree with ya, but I think there's enough room for everyonel, After all, by them simply being here gives you a chance to help change their worldview. Equal opportunity. If you don't want a debate, move on to something else. That's easy enough. Just say'n!

I agree.

Take this as a "like" to your comment, silvereyes. (^.^)

I see your point, but in many ways when places become "echo chambers" they can defeat the purpose, especially if that is one of free thinking.

I understand what you're saying, PNEawf, but I've seen a lot of variations of freethinking here so I'm not sure we'd be too monotone. But one thing that seems to be uniform across the board is an unwillingness to date a religious person, so maybe it should be polled? (Or maybe it was, I'll have to go look.)

@Lauren Has it been? I know the question atleast has been asked. I seem to be among the minority lol if thats the case.

@Neraven I believe the site is still open to religious, but it may be open for discussion. But I'll let you know if I find out otherwise.

I agree that there are some here, @Lonely, but I still stand by my position. This is a dating site, and a lot of people are looking for a haven where they don't have to defend their beliefs the way they do on countless believer dating sites - this is, after all, our only dating site. I think many nonbelievers here gain the strength they need to take up the challenge in their real lives, but their activism should not be mandatory to their efforts to meet a mate.

Clarification: nonbeliever might have been a poor word choice. Perhaps I should have stated religious or those of a belief that would draw them here to bash or convert those of dissimilar mind.

Don't let the religious win. I agree with your comment about "not the same old religion bashing. Refuting religion will require ALL our critical AND compassionate faculties

Agree

and what if aetheists aren't respectful?

Trouble is the theists tend to preach only to the converted and do not engage intellectually. Try a different approach??

I think we should have filters when searching for members, as well as filters to hide posts / comments from religious participants. Sorry, I have too many encounters with jeebus folks in real life and social media. If this place gets overrun by simpleton trolls.. It would not be good

different issue. it's deflection, @SamL.

@walklightly what is deflection?

@SamL, it means a "change of direction". with your question you open a whole new can of worms, instead of staying with the issue, which is: do agnostics want to have believers amongst them here?

Except not every one of them is like that.

That ain’t necessarily so, I used to be a believer.

True, but most actual Christians would answer honestly because of the degree of condemnation assigned to Peter for his denial of Jesus on the morning after his arrest. Besides it would be fun to catch them out on "bearing false witness," denying Christ, and/or expressing doubts of their own supposedly solid convictions.

I like your idea, there could a limit to theist where there is reports of their troubles of trolling or bashing. They could be banned from site if too many reports. Too many numbers of one group outside of nonbelievers like theist's can get disrupting.

religion and spirituality to me is not an atheist room, but that is who runs that room. I quit, and happily never go there. Why don't you have a room for atheists and one for agnostics? They mean 2 different things and to me neither are spiritual.

what room do you claim as only atheistic?

This whole site is for us. Religious people have plenty of social networks of their own.

@Deb57 then why do you have a religion and spirituality room? that is not athisistic. The very name agnostics. com means those who believe or aren't sure they disbelieve but aren't sure. you need to change the community to atheists.com. The religion and spiritual room is misrepresented, Spirituality means you believe their is a higher power but not a dogmatic god. So you gve the community the wrong name and create a room no one can get along in. The definitions do not match atheists.

@BettyColeman Actually, agnosticism is a type of atheism. An atheist is someone who rejects the claim that any gods exist. An agnostic is someone who doubts or has not committed to a belief in any gods, which also denotes a lack of belief. Since atheists and agnostics find themselves in a minority in the world, and often experience anything from marginalization to outright execution for not conforming to the beliefs popular in a given part of the planet, religion and spirituality tend to be hot topics for us. You could call it a survival tool, perhaps.

@Deb57 And just what is 'Religion and Spirituality' as a room? not atheist or agnostic. I am telling you I spent time looking up definitions to some of your labels. If I am an atheist, I should not be a skeptic. Ah, you people want your cake and eat it too. What you say makes no logical sense. I read definitions for agnostics. They are NOT atheists. They don't know what is the truth.

@Deb57 I am not religious.

what a disgusting remark . I accept everyone as they are and I have nothing to preach except your belief is your own choice.

@BettyColeman Whatever. If you want to know what topics are discussed in the section called Religion and Spirituality, I suggest you take a look for yourself. I'm not the moderator. If you don't like my remarks, feel free not to read them. I'm not judgmental, and I don't enjoy associating with judgmental people. Please go pick on somebody else.

@Deb57 I was in it a long time. All in that room fight. I do not live my life. I try to fix problems humanity; I am not interested in ignorant, bullying abuse. I quit and do not miss the hypocrites in tat room. I am done for the night unless I do some posts

@Deb57 True theyt have their own rooms, but too many of them feel the uncontrollable urge to proselytize, because all of us atheist are going to hell and they have to save us.
even though we do not believe in any of it.
those types should be asked to leave.

@kanawah how can an atheist go to hell when he doesn't believe in one? Each individual creates their own reality. As that is so, one should quit allowing others to invade their space.

@BettyColeman I am an atheist and a humanist but I cannot abide religion because it oppresses and divides people. I also consider myself spiritual because i can be moved to tears by a piece of music or a wonderful experience or by simply closing my eyes and breathing in a beautiful rain forest. I am overwhelmed with awe at the very existence of the universe so please don't tell me I'm not spiritual. I find it in the connection I have with those I love including my dog and trees.

I hate being wrong. My response was "Hell no!" but you've convinced me there is room here for "believers" - at least of a certain type.

absolutely with you. why would we want this site, this community soiled by delusionists?

@walklightly precisely

your welcome and sign up does not deny anyone.

i never realized what I was getting into. I thought it was a place that was liberal and realized that a believe system is the personal right of all people/ Boy was I shocked.WHAT YOU PROCLAIM this community is so DIFFERENT THAT YOU WANT IT TO BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE COMMUNITY DEFINED DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU WANTED IT TO BE.

@AntaresRose Would you please go back over that statement with proper caps and punctuation so I can understand what you are trying to say? In case it's meaningful or relevant?

@ForTheBirds My prior post means just what it says. A belief system is personal choice guaranteed by our Constitution Just as Atheists are accepted as non believers, in America we are expected to co-exist and honor all personal beliefs. No human on this earth has the freedom to tell another how they should believe, or what they can say, what gender they choose to marry. All are personal rights and choices of humanity. Being part of humanity gets you accepted with me. That is my only requirement. That is America's requirement. Even in this group, their are continual slurs about any belief that is not Atheist. However, all atheists will be the first to say they are not racist or bigoted. I have been persecuted, stalked, and left groups over continual harassment. i respect a human's right to be themselves above personal choices that cause upheaval in this agnostic community. Essentially many members that consider Atheism as the only way, deny others their government given right. I back this up with the reality that all belief or non belief systems cannot be scientifically proved or disproved. As fa as i am concerned, some don't practice what they state. If your choice is atheism, that is your right as a human living in America. If you are something other then atheist, neither is of concern to me. I am no one's judge and jury. As long as you leave me alone, I will return the same. As an activist for the human race, I may not agree with your choices, but I honor and respect your right to exist and live as what makes you happy. I do not think we have the right to ban anyone regardless of their personal choices. As an activist for humanity, I say leave all personal choices that we disagree accepted as members. If you do not like them, block them, don't go to their groups, but let them have their choices. I left rooms and blocked people over hard nosed hatred for humans because their choices are different. It is not the way America exists. I have had Atheists tell me the whole world will be all Atheist someday. Humans have brains and there is much diversity in how they all live their lives. That will never change. Humans will always differ. Atheists are a minority just as Christians beliefs. There are probably more Muslims in the world population. I am willing to give any human their rights to choose, but not to be thrown out or bullied because they don't believe the same as me. Should we boil all Christians in oil as Rome did to entertain at one time? Shouldn't we have evolved to freedom of choice? This is an old post to be called on. Most know my philosophy. I do not know who you are, but what I said in my prior comment was easy to understand and this is more harassment. i don't even post or comment in this group because of this bullying. i have not nor do i intend to spend my life convincing someone my way is the only way. I do not debate and I do not bully.

@ForTheBirds I read your BIO. It is filled with hate. You seem to think you have been singled out and punished. My life was worse than yours. i had not a decent childhood or marriage. I have been abused. i blame no one but myself. i do not hold hatred because hatred causes severe illnesses. No wonder you have been sick so much. I would advise you to accept only positive energy. Negative energy drains the body. I do nightly meditations to remove negativity. I would advise you to also. I also have struggled with chronic depression my whole life. I am 71 years old and I have learned to get on with it and cope.

@AntaresRose OH FER SHIT'S SAKE. A request for clarification is not an attack. A little thin skinned, are you? My bio is filled with hate? Nope. Seems like you are, though. Maybe a 2 week meditative retreat is in order.

@ForTheBirds listen freedompath fuck off.

@ForTheBirds I owe you nothing. you need to take care of you. now prepare to vanish. you are contacting me over an old post from a group I quit long ago. You are harassing. No one not a man nor a god can intimidate me. You got that? i got myself in a great space.. You are jealous. you are about to get blocked.