Telling an atheist "I'll pray for you" is just as offensive as telling a Christian "I'll think rationally for you."
Saw this online today and loved it. ~ Thought I'd share.
I like that, will have to remember it.
@SACatWalker pen and paper beats memory every time!
your welcome
id like a t-shirt with this on it
I am not offended nor much comforted by it. They mean well.
Exactly. If people mean well it doesn't bother me what language they use.
U say "I don't need your ignorance."
Wahl, suh, they tells me that th' road t' hell do be paved with the best of intentions.
Having a christian 'pray for me' isn't offensive - just utterly pointless. It is no more objectional, but no more valuable, than having them pat their dog for me, or ride a camel for me, or recite pi to twenty decimal places for me.
Their prayers do me no harm and cause me no distress - so why should I be offended?
I can see where you're coming from, @silvereyes, but in truth it just doesn't bother me.
People ask me which football (soccer) team I support. They are assuming I support one, and I actually couldn't give a flying fuck about football in any form - so the question just means nothing.
People ask me whether I prefer the music of the Beatles, the Rolling Stones or Queen. OK - I can appreciate all three, but it hardly matters because Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Chopin, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Liszt, Brahms, Rachmaninov, J S Bach, Stravinsky, Johann Straus (the younger) and a whole load of others beat those 'big three of modern music' into a cocked hat.
It really doesn't matter if someone else makes an assumption about you. That assumption is in THEIR head - it has no effect on you, whatever.
@silvereyes
I don't get that much anymore. Everyone knows I am the Village Atheist. What they don't know is I am not the only one!
@silvereyes Yes! Exactly
That’s funny and insightful. But being the curmudgeon I am, I feel I must point out that it’s not really fair. “I’ll pray for you” would be received well by another Christian, but “I’ll think rationally for you” is probably not going to be appreciated by another atheist. “I’ll wish you the best” might be a more realistic replacement, but some radical rationalists might find wishing as useless as praying (and it would remove all humor from the joke). So what would be guaranteed not to offend rationality? “I can see that your life is in a terrible mess, but since we have no free will there will be nothing you can do about it”? Now THAT’s funny!
There's a well known saying: "It isn't possible to give offence, only to take it."
I don't believe it's universally true. I believe it's possible to say things that are downright offensive. But choosing to be offended on principle someone offering good will in good faith, because of differences in belief systems, is a clear example of taking offence when none was intended.
@SACatWalker I think you missed the "I don't believe it's universally true" part. You just managed to make your 'offer' to share some unsolicited well-meaning words sound more than a tad confrontational, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm somewhat dubious as to the sincerity of any well-meaning words that you might offer.
@SACatWalker Wow! Where did that come from? You're clearly carrying a lot of anger.
I am "on my honor" not to throw religious stuff at you? Where have I done so? I don't even say "bless you" when someone sneezes. And before you take exception to that phrase, you used it yourself a couple of replies above. If you want a site that's devoid of all religious language, then we can't even use examples of it. So what are we supposed to discuss?
Anyone want to trade knitting patterns?
I believe that the religious and non-religious can peacefully coexist if they show each other a little bit of tolerance. To me, that means that as long as they're not telling me what I should believe and how I should lead my life, I won't tell them what they should believe and how to lead theirs.
Having woken up to a Facebook article about a suit manufacturer losing loads of followers over an ad featuring gay men, and the usual crap in the comments about how homosexuality is against God, I've had my fill of religious crap for one day already. That doesn't mean I'll go on the offensive with my Christian friends who don't judge me (or if they do, at least have the decency to keep that judgement to themselves and treat me well.)
George Carlin had my favorite reply: "When a Christian says 'I'll pray for you,' I always reply, 'well, I'll jerk off for you. The difference is, when I'm done, I'll have something to show for it.'"
I always think "I'll pray for you." is christian for "fuck you."
Okay some of them may mean well, but generally it's their way of saying, "it sucks to be you."
it all depends on the inflection, the tone of voice.
"Threatening an atheist with hell is like a hippy threatening to punch you in your aura" is another good one.
What does your King James 1611 version of the Bible say mate?
About? @Huwbert
I'll have to remember that next time someone tells me they'll pray for me or I'm in their prayers. I don't know why people even think that's appropriate. All it does is creep me out that they're including me in their conversations with a figment of the imagination.
Yeah, don't try to teach your religion at my public school, or I'll show up at your church on Sunday with some Dawkins.
I tell Christians, you can pray for me and I'll dance naked in the woods for you
I'm usually not offended because I think they mean well. However, when they do nothing to solve a problem but say the whole thoughts and prayers thing its so insincere it upsets me. "Oh theres homeless people starving? I won't donate money or food, but I'll pray for them!" That kinda crap.
I get a lot of that, mostly from condescending holier than thou Christians with a superiority complex. Most recently, a lady was saying how God is the only way to stop shootings, and I called her out on it. She said "I'm sorry you hold so much hate and anger. I'll pray that you see the light one day." Like go ahead, it'll do as much good as praying to stop shootings has.
Which it hasn't.
If someone who doesn't know my position says I'll pray for you in an earnest manner, I don't take offence. If they know I'm an atheist and say it, that is another matter.
@TheMiddleWay I simply meant that if they were knowingly trying offend. That would cause a different reaction on my part.
@TheMiddleWay first, I also do not agree with your adios example, that aside, I never said I would take offense, I said it was another matter. I take each individual and their words on a case by case basis and would have evaluated if, like you said, they were being passive aggressive. I have had friends of other cultures say they would pray for me during my illness, and I knew they were not trying offend me and that it was more of a cultural thing. Case by case.
It would be 100% equivalent if Christians didn't pray for one another. They do. On the other hand no one thinks rationally for others, or can.
In other words I think many Christians really do mean it as a kindness and not a condescention. If they KNOW you're an unbeliever then things can rapidly deteriorate as they make all sorts of assumptions about you, none of them good. And there's a perfunctory aspect to it with many of them, even when used among their own tribe. So I understand the offensive aspect, but in the interest of not being up in arms all the time about it, I try to see the human and positive side of it. Sometimes it's easier than others, admittedly.
Which is why I only say the latter in response to the former.
Along with sending “thoughts and prayers” (especially by people who should be actually working to make change) and telling you to “have a blessed day.”