I definitely did not know this is how the girl code went. This is fascinating to me, thank you for the information.

If I was looking for a relationship I would definitely go about this completely different. I would take a more grown up approach and start conversations with her. However from the information I have received from her friend that is not what she wants.

@McWalsoft

So, you expect instant sex without getting to know her as a person?

Hire a prostitute instead.

@LiterateHiker In few words "yes". I know this is probably going to sound bad but this isn't the first time one of my friends say "Hey, this girl wants hook up." Most of the time, this time included, it's other girls that give me the information. I use to try and take them on dates and do the whole relationship starter package thing but honestly it's just a waste of time and money. Some of them even get mad or confused when I ask of they want to go out.

@McWalsoft I think we live in very different, but parallel worlds, man......I respect that you are honest and open about what you want and who you are. That's all I can really ask of others in dialoguing. After reading the rest of the thread, I have to say that, for me, you and I could still never be friends because, even tho it looks like you are putting your friendship with Joey first over the fling, I am just too different in my values about women to be ok with your dealings with women and being such a player. I would not be comfortable with a friend that rolled that way and you would not with someone as old school and moralistic as me. Many years ago I heard a guy your age talk about what you are looking for with this woman. He used the term "sport fuck". This was back in the late 80s. Another guy in the discussion called him out on it and said, "Hey man, if I ever heard you say that about having had a sport fuck with my sister, I'd punch you in the fucking mouth!". I get your point about having heard that she wanted that, but I hope you get my point about respecting women in general and maybe giving her a break since she is on the rebound and may not be making good decisions right now. Would you take advantage of a drunk woman at a bar that was too drunk to consent? My guess would be "yes". See the similarity?

@TomMcGiverin I'm sure we could be friends. Do you like Sports, politics, general news or hypothetical future changes in the world? If yes to any of those then I'd think we'd get along just fine. I get your point though we definitely are different in this aspect. I use to have a romantic type idea of what relationships entailed and how they start. I was in a committed relationship for 6 years and have never cheated on anyone. I have definitely played the field, though I would not consider myself a player. The group of people I hang with are really open, liberal, and young 20/ 30 somethings that live in college towns. Maybe there is a disconnect between the age of you and I. Most of the people I associate with don't want kids or want to get married. The bringing drunk girls from a bar thing is a bit presumptuous. Full disclosure I totally have but I would not say that there was ever a time the girls were so intoxicated that they were not in the right frame of mind. I don't want to undermine anything regarding the #metoo movement and the good it's done but I think people are a bit too afraid now that somehow they are going to wind up on the news or in jail. I am actually friends with most of my ex's and I would venture to say most have nice things to say about me. Is there a similarity between drunk girls and girls looking for a rebound after a long term relationship? Sure, they are both independent strong individuals who want to have fun and enjoy life responsibly.

@McWalsoft I never had kids, by choice, so we have that in common, as well as the interests in sports, politics, news, etc., but we obviously hang with very different crowds, probably related to our age difference. But I still think we are a world apart on attitudes towards women. I do give you props for never cheating on anyone, that's better than most men out there, but that may be related more to how you don't really do relationships on a regular basis either. As far as the drunk girls and those on the rebound tho, have to disagree with you on whether they really are that independent, strong, wanting to have fun and enjoy life responsibly or whether that is just a self-serving rationalization on your part to justify you getting what you want. I hope that you are able to get what you are after without causing hurt to anyone, including yourself, but I won't be surprised if that happens. Hope you don't end up, like you say, on the news or in jail someday for a sexual assault charge. My other advice is, like the Trojan commercial, Always Wear Your Life Jacket......Also, while you're at it, since you aren't interested in having kids, a vasectomy might not be a bad idea either.......

That would be interesting.

I'll keep you informed if you like.

@McWalsoft Yes, please.

I might do just that. I kind of forgot Joey and I are going to the Garth Brooks concert in Minnesota May 3rd so I probably should hold off until after that at least.

To an extent you're probably right. In my mind he has had enough time but I know my idea of enough time and others don't always mesh. Do you have time frame you kind of go by? Like 2 weeks a month?

@McWalsoft If you want to stay his friend, maybe forever???

@ladyprof70 If we all did that then I don't think relationships would start at all. I could claim I have a crush on everyone and no one should date anybody I like. So I do believe there is some sort of limit to this waiting thing. I get the point though that he might be bitter no matter how long I wait but I think he would understand. He's a pretty understanding person.

@ladyprof70 I am just saying good friends are harder to find than sex partners. If you don't value your current friends much, then when you need a good firiend you may fidn yourself lacking one.

@snytiger6 That's what I meant -- even if I didn't say it clearly. I think friends are more difficult to find than romantic partners. So I think you need to cultivate the friendship carefully.

I guess I'm a bit confused. Joey and the girl haven't dated before. I mean he knows her better than me but that's not saying much since I've never met her. As far as I'm concerned Joey and I should be on the same level here. I called him and talked it over with him a few days ago and said I would let him have his shot. Which I've held up my end, not sure how I am a bad friend in your eyes.

Thank you for the detailed response. I tend to agree with just about everything you said. From what I've gathered from her friends is she was with some guy for 6 years or so and she called it off and basically wants to have "fun" and make up for lost time. Yeah, I thought doing your "middle ground" option, and still might. I am probably going to see how things go at the party, test the air so to speak, and talk to him there. Since you seem to be the most interested or have most advice. Do you have a go to time frame in this situation or other similar situations?

@McWalsoft Oh heck no, I've been out of the dating realm for a decade and I'm twice your age so those were just my extemporaneous thoughts.

I suppose if she's being explicit that she wants to "have fun" then it's down to you and your friend continuing what appears to be open and transparent communication. You might even do him a favor if you tell him to lead, follow, or get out of the way so to speak. Might light a fire under him.

@mordant He has had some issues dating in the past. I've tried to help build his confidence a bit. I've got him pretty far before. He just has a bit of trouble closing the deal. I thought talking it through with him earlier would have lit a fire under him. However I'm not seeing that yet. Who knows maybe its happening behind the scenes but I doubt it. It's a bit frustrating.

@McWalsoft Well he wouldn't be the first human being vapor locked about any number of things. Social anxiety is a hard taskmaster. My stepson is hobbled by it so the approach I'm taking with him is to build his confidence and skills in other areas and give him small successes that make him feel more capable and confident. The hope is it will transfer to dating, school, other areas where he has difficulties. But it's a long haul.

@mordant Very true I remember being that way as well. I use to not nearly be as confident in dating as I am now. Which is why I want to help Joey and other friends of mine out with it. A quick example: we were playing a pick up game of basketball 3 on 3. I had played a few games in a row before this so I was sitting this one out. Joey's team (also my team) was getting smoked. Either way I knew Joey was the best player on the court, he could hit 3's and was the fastest player out there. Unfortunately he was extremely passive with the ball he would pass it every time even on wide open shots. He would blow by his opponent and have an open lane to the rim and pass it off to someone covered. So even though I wasn't playing in this game I called a time out for them and I got on him in particular. I said "You are the best damn player out here and if I see you pass that damn ball again when your open I'm going to run out there and kick your ass." Obviously I wouldn't harm a fly but when the game started back up Joey had the game of his life. He was acting like LeBron out there. He not only brought his team back but won the game. He later said that's exactly what he needed to hear. Confidence and pushing the right buttons can go along way.

@McWalsoft It is astounding how giving someone permission that isn't really yours to even give, can set them free. My 2nd wife performed that office for me, essentially giving me permission to be myself and/or make certain decisions that I had been conditioned by previous religious influences to be avoidant around. For example, she taught me the concept of firing unreasonable or slow paying clients. This simply had not occurred to me as even being an option.

That said, I also didn't remain dependent on other people goosing me, I took it on board and changed my thinking around it.

It seems to be there are fewer than I thought. Maybe I should have posted this in a group or something. I thought this was a general question that many have experienced but I'm finding out maybe it's not.

It seems like I should have posted this in a group, maybe? Thought this was a more common occurrence.