I was looking for a good, brief history lesson on the Counsel of Nicaea the other night on YouTube, and found that it was very hard to find a trustable source. It was feeding me a lot of the Christian apologetic view on the counsel and how to defend against the real info I’m looking for. And everything else seemed too conspiratorial to be taken seriously the other way.
I guess the rational thing to do would be to go to the library and elsewhere online to do some real research, but my local library is likely stacked with the same slant on the topic, and in general sourcing shit online isn’t that much more reliable. I don’t care that much or have the time to wade through dense research papers on .edu sites, this is for entertainment value mostly.
Just wondering if y’all have any favorite historians, skeptics, and secular religious scholars who really know the rational meat and potatoes of things like this without getting into so many exaggerated conspiratorial rabbit holes that these Christians practice debunking. YouTube videos and podcasts are preferred and can be on the long side. I’m not really hellbent on researching this to go to war with anyone in particular, and I have a superficial knowledge of what it was already. I’d just like to brush up for vague personal interest.
Any lessons or shows on similarly salient historical events of abrahamic religions would also be interesting if you think of any more. Thanks!
The Council of Nicaea, ordered and assembled by Roman Emperor Constantine ( aka Constantinius the Great) in 325C.E. was an assembly of 'Bishops' self-elected by the then Messianic Cult who followed the assumed teachings of one Yeyoshua (Jesus) of Nazareth. It was decided that this Messianic Cult should be known as the Christian Cult or the Church of the Followers of Yeyoshua, the New Messiah and that a tome (book) should be created to include both the Pentateuch, first 5 books of the Hebrew Torah, the tales of Creation, etc, etc, and tales of the Miracles, Teachings, etc, of this New Messiah.
It was decided also that this book SHOULD be written by a great number of Scribes selected solely by the 'Bishops' from the most TRUSTED Scribes in their homelands (approx. 66 Scribes from 30+ Countries in 3 separate Continents btw) that were part of the then Roman Empire and that such a book SHOULD be compiled to, a) show this NEW religion in a shining light, b) NOT in any way,shape or form denigrate, debase, etc, the present religions of the Roman Empire, and c) last but by no means least, should 'contribute' ONE Tenth ( Tithe) of ANY and ALL funds/monies gained by it to the Coffers( Treasury) of the Roman Empire.
It IS important to remember that Emperor Constantine WAS NOT a Christian at this time BUT he only saw the new Cult as a means to 'enhance' the wealth of the Empire and to bolster the Legions of the Empire by including Messianics in the ranks.
Constantine was baptised AFTER his death, NOT before, he remained a staunch follower of the Roman Religious Belief Systems right up until he drew his FINAL breath.
Here are some links that I hope you find both informative and enjoyable. This is the series In Our Time which has been running now for over 20 years on BBC and covers, in an erudite manner, a vast array of subjects from History, Religion, Culture, Philosophy and Science. Three top academics discuss a subject hosted by Melvyn Bragg.
I hope they are helpful
As the first ecumenical council (the most recent ran three years and ended in 1965) it was a gathering of the church leaders with the intent to solidify positions that were disparate, such as the question of the divinity of Jesus and Trinitarianism.
The Pauline tradition “won” (so to speak) and leaves us with effectively the only accepted position of virtually all Christian churches (that Jesus was solely and distinctly god). Other beliefs (such as the Thomasine branch or Arians and their numerous offshoots) would come to be seen as heretical and almost entirely quashed, although there are small groups of “Christians” extant who dismiss Jesus as being separate from humanity and other groups subsequently adopting a position of Nontrinitarianism over the course of the last couple of centuries.
You asked about books on other matters... you may enjoy a book on early church leader Origen and the possibility that he held a view favorable to Reincarnation. The topic is often misrepresented by many today however this short book does a good job of investigating the matter.
I can't say i'm an expert but i did watch a video on it. Basically Constantine tried to get all the christians together to determine what the real truth of christianity was. There were various factions of christianity at the time. At the council, they determined the canon of the bible and there were many books left out. In the current bible. It goes from Jesus birth to a brief scene in which he was 12 and then skips to when he started his ministry at 30. The books taken out kind of fill in the blanks of his life including killing a playmate when he was 5 and blinding one of his teachers when he was 10. Also, I've read that they took out the part where Jesus talks about reincarnation. Basically, They took out the parts that would not adhere to the image of Jesus that they wanted.
Do you know which excluded books refer to the 5yr old and 10 year old as they are not familiar to me. Also what was the video?
@Geoffrey51 The book that has both events in it is called the Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Thanks. Do you know is it of Gnostic origin as The Gospel Of Thomas is presumed to be?
@Geoffrey51 Yes it is Gnostic
As I recall, from college not from being there, the Council of Nicea was the first schism in the Christian church between what was Catholicism and what became Greek Orthodox. To cut a long story short a lot of the problem stemmed from a disagreement between Latin and Greek speakers as to whether the son of God was made of similar stuff or the same stuff as God. The disagreement was never reconciled.
Issaic Asimov's Guide To The Bible..,, i highly recommend for logical references...he did the research , all those years ago... you can refer to his bibliography and footnotes.
All you need to know (though lacking some detail) about the Council of Nicea and other whoopdeedooism of the early church.
Hope this will be helpful.
P.S. I find print sources to be more reliable than youtube, but that may be a function of my age (and the fact that I am an educator, so have a history of telling students to "do your research," which usually does not include youtube as a verifiable source).
Nicean consul...weren't they the guys who lay forth that Jesus was the saviour?
From memory. Essentially a bunch of so-called patriarchs sat around and decided which supposedly holy written works, by men, would be chosen to comprise the so-called holy book now known as the bible.
Bart Ehrman is the most popular Secular Theologian around. He writes both academic and popular books. He also has a blog that he writes and the proceeds go to charity. If you want to know the truth about early Christian History he's about as good as there is. Marcus Borg is a favorite of mine as well.
Nicaea is the point at which Constantine wants to codify Christianity as he needs to unify his territories. There are many different forms of Christianity at this point all squabbling with each other which doesn’t help with consistency amongst his subjects!
Constantine isn’t bothered about truth or untruth, just an official text book. Another important player behind the scenes is his mother, Helena, a devout Christian.
Also of interest is the Council of Origen
That era of Christianity has my most interest. I’ll try and dig out some academic history for you that doesn’t wander into apologetics.
Ever since I was a kid, the Encyclopedia Brittanica was always a great resource.
That said, fucking Constantine. JFC.
All one needs to know is that it was comprised entirely of men; corrupt men. Nothing good or edifying can eventuate from such a process for anyone but other corrupt men.
I love the Bible Geek... Robert M. Price, and Richard Carrier and find them to be, from a historical point of view, most reliable. Price has a book called The Pre-Nicene New Testament, and Carrier has a great book called On the Historicity of Jesus. But, specifically on the Council of Nicaea, I'd recommend a video by Milwaukee Athiests on Youtube called: What Happened at the Council of Nicaea?
Sounds like you are looking for complete confirmation bias information.
@jlynn37 @ShannonPool @BillF @RichCC How’s that? Asking for info from decently legitimate historians instead of Christian apologists is bias confirmation seeking? Really? That’s explicitly what I found lacking about the videos I did run into. They’re mostly all confirmation bias videos and that’s unacceptable. I don’t understand how that amounts to me looking for it. Y’all seem to have mistaken my point. Recognizing it doesn’t equate to seeking it. I could understand this accusation if it came from a Christian but not this bunch.