Is religion the same as government?
What is the purpose of religion?
1
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42 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Religion does not have to have a purpose, much of religion is simply a pebble on the beach, it is there but has no intent. When it does have purpose, then the purpose can be as varied as the people who take it up, but certainly one of the best of its many purposes in the historical past, has been to provide an alternate voice to that of government, and sometimes an alternate way of filling needs and a refuge for those persecuted by governments. This, I would say, was and still is, its best purpose and perhaps the only one largely untainted by evil.
Fernapple
Level 9
July 15, 2019
0
of course not. some religions are not government and some governments are not religion. there is such a thing as theocracy but it is not the only form of government and it is not the only form of religion either. as for the purpose of religion, there are many purposes. i find no use for any of them.
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genessa
Level 8
July 15, 2019
1
The answer to the first question is it shouldn’t be although quite often it is. There are many states which actually are theocracies, but even in so called secular democracies there can be undue religious influence in government. The second question is much harder to answer, but as it’s an invention of man then It obviously fulfils a need in the human psyche.
Marionville
Level 10
July 15, 2019
1
I would say that the answer to the first question is yes and no. In some places in this world, religion and the government are the same, think totalitarian regimes such as North Korea. In many of the remaining nations religion and government are separate at least on paper but they intermingle to achieve similar goals. In the rest of the nations they are separate entities that run mostly independent from each other. I'll let you figure out who is who. Also, unfortunately on a philosophical scale they both value authority and control, so they have that similarity too.
As far as the purpose of religion, initially it was primitive attempts at philosophy and a way to explain the mysteries of life sufficiently until more answers were discovered. However once it was realized that you could use it to modify the behavior of others, it was quickly co-opted by the tribal leaders and witch doctors to establish control and lead their tribes.
AndrewInVail
Level 6
July 15, 2019
1
The purpose of religion is to portray mythology as if it were reality in order to scare people into giving money to the liars who preach it.
The purpose of good government is to encourage ethical and respectful behavior as well as cooperation in such necessary things as infrastructure and defense. A good government should treat religious scams as crimes.
BestWithoutGods
Level 8
July 15, 2019
2
Perfect!!!
The purpose of religion is socialization of like minded people. The scriptures of the religion are mere window dressing. Oh, they have a song and dance session with services, classes, a lecture, etc., to familarize members what their common beliefs are. That's so they can claim there's a spiritual reason not cheat, steal, kill and cheat on the spouse. That way they can do it anyway while bamboozing everyone else they wouldn't do it.
WonderWartHog99
Level 8
July 15, 2019
2
With all due respect, I have to disagree. The purpose of religion is to allow the priest class to control the people.
@Boxdoc Priests "control" the masses only with the masses consent.
Yes, religious leaders always want and are a shadow government, it all depends who they have or need to use as a spiritual sanuary to give the masses hope of some sort of redemption, even when the masses deaths are part of the governments(gods) plan! Spirituality is used by religion and governments to harness and console the masses under their divine guidance aka control of free will! Of course it only works for the majority of the masses, the minorities that do not follow are hunted down, imprisoned, or ostracized as criminals or mentally I'll!
of-the-mountain
Level 9
July 15, 2019
2
In America? Yes.
LimeySteve
Level 7
July 15, 2019
2
Oh my sweet child of summer, USA is so far from being governed by religion, you have no idea how deep it can go.
Even in America there are countries like Argentina that you need to be roman catholic to be president.
Or countries with real monarchies where the head of state, government and religion is the same person like some in middle east (most of them are like USA, religion generates power, but is not the law).
- No, but in some instances government wants to have the same brainwashing power that religion has.
- Basically to control people through deceptions that are ingrained in your psyche by those who have been brainwashed by the same manipulation prior to your own indoctrination, i.e. your parents, most of the society that surrounds you, family, friends, and of course the people who work for organized religions.
Mofo1953
Level 9
July 15, 2019
2
Religion is a stratagem to manipulate people's minds via remote control
PontifexMarximus
Level 8
July 15, 2019
1
I do not think they are the same in purest form. When elements are introduced to them, then the disimilarity blurs. By elements I mean: Personal or group agenda, greed, desire for power, control. These elements are not always bad, often necessary to counter improper human behavior. The more elements, the more diversity of ideas and desires, the more complexity. Modern humans have added so much complexity, government and religion seem the same.
The purpose of religion started with the need to explain the unknown. The unknown creates anxiety which is counterproductive to the survival of a complex species. Thus, if you don't understand why the growth of food your group/herd/tribe requires is not consistent year to year; but you know it's tied to rain yet don't understand climate; perhaps an ethereal being is in charge. And that being needs a sacrifice. Perhaps simply cutting down a tree with a herring... Or death.
"Hey, Bob and Karen, sorry but your virgin daughter needs to have her blood spilled on this special rock in order for the village to survive. We need the rain."
Now, in early human times, religion was likely harmless. Stories and maybe special trinkets that seemed to "bring luck". But sociopaths came about and began bringing in elements. Became shamans/religious leaders. Sometimes it merely took on the form of dancing or ingesting mind altering plants. Sometimes the crazy took on violence. And the elders/leaders (government) used it to their advantage. Blur.
I know my explanation is very simplified. Perhaps details poke holes in my ideas. However, sometimes the simplest explanation is best.
MonkeyMan42
Level 4
July 15, 2019
1
Are cars the same thing as dogs?
lerlo
Level 8
July 15, 2019
1
I was just about to post a simple "No" but I like your way of answering better.
Government's purpose is to provide order, services to the people, regulate business and behavior, and make decisions for the collective society. The purpose of religion has been to historically provide and ethical and moral base for the society while also helping people with explaining and making sense of what science had previously been unable or unavailable to explain.
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
July 15, 2019
0
"The purpose of religion has been to historically provide and ethical and moral base for the society"
Oh wait. You're serious?
@Matias Nice quote. Does he have any historical information to demonstrate that's it's anything besides what he wants to believe?
Everything that religion put forth as a cooperative association or meaningful virtue existed well before religions. All religions did was take credit for the positive aspects of human nature and weaponize it for those who believe.
Unfortunately, religion has been too aligned with politics all over History. Nowadays it's a lot better, there are a quite considerable number of states where there's separation from politics and religion but still religion still has too much power.
Paddypereira
Level 7
July 15, 2019
1
Religion is kind of a copolitical track, that takes reference from a respective hermeneutics. The hermeneutics are NEVER of a perfect consensus for the simple reason that if it was, it would be exposed as untrue too quickly. Government is there as a colegal body and it tries to control economics through law, law enforcement, and adding more laws over time.
So religion and government are quite the same with respect to control. They both try to be political, meaning they try to put the work of every human cell towards a unified collective goal. It's actually very evil. -D.Z.
DZhukovin
Level 7
July 15, 2019
1
In what was is religion the same as government? I see no similarity whatsoever.
A religion can BE a government...that's a theocracy. The U.S. is very close to having one. But that's only because many more religious people VOTE.
Storm1752
Level 8
July 15, 2019
1
>The U.S. is very close to having one.
Right wing fundamentalist have some sway on how people vote. The extreme range of different churches and religious groups are no where close to having a one choice political stance.
@WonderWartHog99 Yes, but Christians in general have certain troubling CORE beliefs upon which they in part vote.
The one most troubling to me is their belief in "end times" and Armaggedon, which in my mind make them anti-solution for any problem you care name.
After all, anything which delays Armaggedon delays the second coming.
They'd rarely put it precisely that way. We should.
I think a lot of enemies of Christianity forget this basic hostility to the natural, material world and everything in it.
Except THEM, of course..
@Storm1752 Most that CORE belief are beliefs that are common to values of civilization, i.e. women should have no choice over their bodies, are frail creatures, egocentricity and no random killing or stealing without group approval.
The limits to those values change as civilization changes. However, with religion makes a stronghold to those older values and the limits to which they extend.
Although more than 90% of everyone in congress is a self proclaimed Christian, the fundamentalist push the concept Christianity is under attack. They say that because the limits to the older values are changing, i.e. how we treat gays -- more toward equality than killing them just because they're gay.
@WonderWartHog99 Sorry your grammar makes it hard to understand what you're saying.
I just think the belief in "end times" and Armaggedon is much more dangerously "core" than even the proscriptions on abortion or homosexuality, and their overall world view should scare the sh*t out of people. THEY think this verdant world is
ruled by demonic forces,
non-Christians are ruled by demons,
or ARE demonic themselves.
It's a demented, delusional, self-fulfilling hallucination, but it IS their perception.
Any government controlled by these people is dangerous, to other countries and their own citizens, and THIS is why people should VOTE.
The oligarchy doesn't care. It thinks it is using these people, and maybe they are, but to me that's cold comfort: they HAVE their underground bunkers and will ride out this Christian-fueled "armaggedon" in style, while we (literally) fry.
@Storm1752 >your grammar makes it hard to understand what you're saying.
The hardest to write sentence is the simple, short declarative sentence. Compound, complex sentences slow things down. Not that I should give an example.
>I just think the belief in "end times" and Armaggedon is much more dangerously "core" than even the proscriptions on abortion or homosexuality, and their overall world view should scare the sh*t out of people. THEY think this verdant world is
ruled by demonic forces, non-Christians are ruled by demons,or ARE demonic themselves. It's a demented, delusional, self-fulfilling hallucination, but it IS their perception.
The Christians I meet try not to laugh about exact date for end times. Instead they frequently say "Not even the angels in heaven know when the world will end." They say that because when someone claims to know the exact date, they are always wrong. The date comes, the date goes and world keeps keeping on. There are hundreds of examples of past predictions that didn't come true.
Do you have any specific examples of Christian sects that claim to know the exact date of Armageddon?
@WonderWartHog99 Exact date? Lots of preachers in the past have, but none right now...why? What does an exact date have to do with it? It's enough their entire orientation is focused on how great it'll be when the world blows itself to bits! No environmentalists on that bandwagon! Nobody trying to get a world government together to end war! The only one THEY'RE interested in seeing is one headed by the satanic 'anti-christ,' who wouldn't be interested in peace treaties or amazing new technologies.
People totally misread Christians, as if they're slightly goofy peaceniks with museums for Noah's Ark, and the Dinosaur-Human Mutual Admiration Society.
They are doing everything possible to f*ck things up, have terminally bad attitudes, and are actively working (like Islam) to make things as miserable as possible for everyone who refuses to agree with them, and join their mega-cult.
They're just very good at hiding their true agenda.
Not that atheists' attitudes are much better. Just as pessimistic, but replace the end of the world with oblivion. Who knows? They could be right. Sure can't get much more wrong than the other guys!
I just remember how happy I was to finally know with certainty: no hell! I don't want to ruin it for myself by substituting an almost-as-bad doctrine: no nothing!
@Storm1752 What does an exact date have to do with it?
Everything.
First the world will end, maybe in 600 eons from now some wandering planet size hunk of space rock will hit it and smash it into dust. Feel any urgency to change your life?
Now you think in it'll end next Thursday, you might do something, like hand most of the bank account over to the guy who tipped you off.
A sense of urgency is a common ploy in sales. Act now! Limited supply! Sales end next Thursday, just before the earth ends! It's one of top ways they get people to buy stuff.
@WonderWartHog99 Okay I'll give you that much. Every next generation is the one the waterwalker comes back. Junior sitting in the pew next to his dad is assured of that: "Yes, Virgil, there IS a Santa Christ, and he's on his way, any minute now!"
I was making the point it's hungering and thirsting for The End which drives the whole bandwagon: "Forget all this nonnsense of making the world a better place! It's hopeless! Men are evil little demon-lovers! REPENT!"
THAT'S the pernicious evil, the heart and 'soul' of the whole dirty business, and I would argue that goes a LONG way toward explaining why our society is so dysfunctional, so desperately unable to deal with reality. "Climate change? Who cares? Tomorrow it's all going to hell [literally] anyway! (Except for US, of course.)"
@Storm1752 >Men are evil little demon-lovers! REPENT!"
I think they're pushing more for the women to be the demon lover but meh, same idea, different nit.
The "end time" they're more serious about is the individual's end of life and why they should dodge going to hell.
Somehow I've missed the evangelicals all denying climate change.
I believe they are similar like science, being something society cannot exist without. If all three science, religion and government were merged that would be terrific and some societies have actually attempted this e.g Islam. Not with global success that will last.
Mcflewster
Level 8
July 23, 2019
0
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