From The Article: Prof William Reville (May 16th) discussed science and religion with the message that religion is good for us and science is not all it’s cracked up to be. He ends by advising that science should avoid “picking fights” with religion, which he says is a “friendly and powerful potential ally”. I was reminded of the Skibbereen Eagle warning in 1898 that it was keeping its eye on the Emperor of Russia. With Reville on the watch, science is less likely to step out of line.
Natural science is the study by the scientific method of the natural world, in which ideas are developed to explain it. Established theories, generally accepted as reliable, have enriched our cultural and material world and persuaded many of us to give up any interest in the supernatural.
Reville believes science intended to undermine religion. This effect of science, showing that religious belief is implausible, has never been an objective of science per se. I do not know of any reputable professional scientific society that has set out to eliminate religious beliefs. In 40 years lecturing on genetics, I never took the opportunity in my lectures to discuss religious beliefs – religion was simply irrelevant to my subject. Science is not however irrelevant to religion; it has indeed undermined its authority.
Science has made it difficult for many people to believe in dogmatic religion. I lost my faith because I was introduced at school to the theories of the atom and evolution – science made sense of the material world but religion quite the opposite. This effect of science recommends it to humanists such as myself." -David McConnell
Science is not just one thing. Religion is not irrelevant to the science of anthropology, for example. Science studies bird behavior, ant behavior, and rat behavior; why should human behavior somehow be irrelevant, or off limits to scientific inquiry?
Science tells us the facts of the natural world, but it doesn’t go into the community every week and console grieving widows; that’s not its job. Science maintains no facility which weekly teaches people to forgive and love their enemies.
Religion predates science by thousands of years, but science is a specialized discipline which grew out of religion, just like philosophy and law, etc. There is no real competition between science and authentic religion. They make much better allies than enemies.
If religion would just stick with the "Do unto others as you", and help the poor then it would be fine. But forget this heaven, hell, sin, Eve bit an apple, Noah, sex, and crap like that. It's very obvious that man created god to be like man, not God created man in his/her image.
I agree with a lot that has been said. How long we should tolerate religionists neglecting evidence is quite another matter. Religion DOES undermine science and in many situations at the extreme, religion does settle the matter by denying life chances
This is what the Religiously Impaired™ just do not get. Science has nothing against the magical properties of Pixie Dust either. Science simply does not factor in religion, the same way it does not factor in Pixie Dust. No evidence, no consideration. This is just the way it is.
I have been teaching high school biology (with an emphasis on evolution) for 20 years. Every year I have a handful of young students who vociferously object to the notion of humans sharing common ancestry with apes (and reptiles, and earthworms, and bacteria). Time and time again I hear, "I believe the Bible." To those students I say, "That's all well and good, but in science belief is irrelevant. Belief is just a strongly held opinion. Do you have independently-verifiable evidence to support your position? If so, show us. We would love to see it!" While they chew on that I continue to wheel out evidence that we DO share common ancestry with all other species on Earth. Am I able to convince the ardent believer on the spot? Usually not (the fence-sitters generally do come around). But I suspect that in the believer's mind I have planted seeds of doubt that will one day bear fruit. For what it's worth, I'd like to believe so.
You are doing amazing work. Be proud. Religious indoctrination is a difficult thing to overcome but you are literally in the very best position to do so. When I attended Catechism at age 5 or so the nun threw out there that god created all the animals. I asked, “what about evolution?” The best the nun could do was say that we were not going to talk about that now. I remember all the other little kids’ heads turning to look at me and then back at the nun and thought how they resembled baby birds waiting to be fed. That is when I realised god was all a sales pitch.
I think that those who take the word of religion over science do so because they're either too intellectually lazy or intimidated by the demands science makes on them to actually think. It also doesn't promise anyone magical kingdoms in the sky or eternal life and religious leaning people like that sort of thing.
On the David McConnell quote. I was much the same way, although I was never a believer. I had the fortune to have not been brought up in a religious household.
But I also had the fortune to have gone to a few "Science" based schools. Something IMHO, we are lacking. Using the Scientific method in every avenue is honestly the only way to get to the truth. Well, "truth" might not be the best word. rather we, by hypothesis, testing, and drawing conclusions based on the empirical evidence. we could deduce the most likely scenario.
The archaic use of religious texts as not only dogma, but as a tool to forgo pseudo Science., it something that really needs to be looked at with Disdain,ridicule, and contempt.
Just my 5 cents.
" Using the Scientific method in every avenue is honestly the only way to get to the truth." As an ex-science teacher this is my overall goal. If we think what children need to understand and use science for their own purposes we can improve things. What ever we decide for children can , in an adapted form be applied to adults too. Would you consider joining my Science Teacher's group on this site - note you do not have to be a paid teacher to join - just be interested in science education for all.
@Mcflewster Actually I would love that. I might not be an accredited Teacher. But a good part of my family are. At the very least, I might learn something along the way. I will look that group up. Thank you.
Paraphrasing Neil deGrasse Tyson: Religions were invented long ago when humankind knew nothing about how the world works. Religion provided the answer, “God did it”. But as science provides answers to the same old questions, religion must give way to science (not science give way to religion).
(Man's belief in) “God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist
I like Reville’s assessment.
@Shouldbefishing Religion is a way of life, conducted by individuals. Many or most religious people embrace science. Science is the pursuit of knowledge about nature, and is conducted by trained scientists. About half of US scientists say they believe in some sort of God concept.
When religious organizations teach unscientific dogmas they are in error. When individuals claim that science can explain the deep unanswerable questions about reality, they are wrong. Otherwise, there need be no conflict between religion and science.
KIP THORNE: (Nobel Prize winning physicist)
"There are large numbers of my finest colleagues who are quite devout and believe in God [...] There is no fundamental incompatibility between science and religion. I happen to not believe in God."[13]
(Wikipedia)
@Shouldbefishing agree with what you said. And would add that religion doesn't really help people live good and moral lives. Christians are proof of that.
@Emerald I try not to judge the whole group by the actions of a few. There’s a lot of good people who are Christians.
Religions make many scientific statements which are false. Science corrects those. Now, who is doing the undermining? If I walk around Times Square proclaiming to be the king of America are those people laughing at me undermining me or am I undermining myself for saying stupid things? I guess a case can be made for both usages of the word but it is pretty clear where the real fault lies.
I realize that I'm about to state the obvious, but...
Science tries to be 'correct' -- to describe reality. Science doesn't care about Religion except insofar as Religion often promotes falsehoods that Science by it's nature wants to correct.
Religion tries to be in 'control' -- correctness is only useful in that it can be used to preempt integrity (deserved or not). Religion need only conflict with Science when Religion's control is threatened by Religion's falsehoods being exposed.
The two positions would never disagree if their goals were the same.
For me, one worldview seeking 'control' to the expense of 'correctness' makes it an easy choice. Religion falls in a poor second (at least) place.
Well said.