That's a good point about the other types of meat. Ive never been one to shame other cultures for other meats. We eat pigs. and they are higher on the social and intelligence scale than most of our pets.

I do find it frustrating that non vegan food alternatives don't seem to take off. That probably has something to do with the all or nothing diet culture than the vegans themselves but I think there is more opportunity there.

@MsAl I am trying to follow your reasoning, but I don't find your argument convincing. I still haven't seen much of a vegan culture. This idea of vitamins is, to most people, as absurd as promoting abstinence from sexual intercourse to combat HIV. Somehow it seems to be the meat industry that is diabolising Veganism. Vegans have become the Taliban of the meat industry.
Geoffrey51 draws an interesting parallel.... A Vegan mudjahedin under every burger.

No boogie men. I agree their should be less meat. Just looking at a different perspective of it. I am annoyed by the trendiness.

Not necessarily true at all that veganism is all about processed foods. Going out to eat tends to mean something you couldnt do easily at home and has to be able to make a profit for the restaurant. Raw food is perishable and so without consistent demand it might be harder to profit off of carrying it. I ate raw vegan for a while. I was in good shape when I was doing it, gassy, but in good shape! lol Even without going totally raw you can have nuts and beans not overly processed..its just what works for you. Even trying eat 50 percent raw prolly makes a good difference in health. I do think if more were eating more raw food that it would have a more widespread effect..why wouldnt it? Btw thanks for making me think about it. Maybe we need more greenhouses

@thinkwithme but you're part of that privileged few that has the resources and the education and the opportjnniuty to get the foods you want, and understands what you need. Can't say that about most Americans. They'll just buy thjngsbwith the words "vegan" or "plant based" on the label

@MarkiusMahamius so...community gardens.. food expos..greater pressure on government to allow and support feeding people healthy meals..

It does make you wonder about the supply and demand aspects. Will the dairy and meat industries be affected to the point of reducing price? In the opposite direction, Burger King and KFC are now beginning to offer plant-based alternatives to burgers and chicken...who would have ever thought THAT would happen? Fast Food Vegan! Not saying it's necessarily a healthy alternative...but maybe it is for some people. Meatless Mondays have become a 'thing' after all.

@mojo5501 id bet money that the meatless products that fast food america is offering, are cheaper, lower quality (less digestible nutrition per dollar), have a longer shelf life (because they are engineered to meet the company's needs, rather than the company havjng to figure out how to accomodate the product), and are going to get more popular not less.

@mojo5501 widespread change will certainly affect them and others who proccess, package, transport, and sell the food. As production goes down significantly I'd expect a reduction in the economy of scale to eventually drive prices much higher.

I'm all for meat alternatives for those who want them, but I'm not one of them. Even if the taste and texture is a perfect match its the fat, protein, and lack of carbs that keeps me eating meat as much as anything. It'll be pretty amazing if they can replicate that, and I'd definetly eat it at that point. But the style of eating my body responds best to is basically the keto diet, and plant based meat couldn't be on my menu unless it actually were a meat equivilant instead if a replacement.

@MarkiusMahamius find a taker for that bet and GIVE ME A CALL SO I CAN GET IN ON IT!

That seems to be the consenses. I might be wrong about this one. Thats not a bad thing.

1. By causing other people to dig in to their meat eating lifestyles
2. By using up all the air of the anti big meat movement on a lifestyle that the majority won't follow or take seriously. There doesnt seem to be much space for making better alternatives that arent vegan but that might be more likely to have wider appeal.

@MsAl I think many of us are seeing the appeal of less meat and dairy. It is a trend that is worrying the Big Food Companies enough to get a reaction...all the lawsuits of what is a milk and what is a burger? Those kinds of legal actions trying to carve out 'authentic' milk products and 'real' meat like veganism is some sort of false advertising scheme...ha ha.

I can relate to your statement: I eat what I can afford. It really is a case of my food budget, too. Over the years, the high cost of beef, pork, poultry, and fish have all made these categories of food more like 'treats' than a regular part of my diet. The less I've eaten of them, the less I find myself putting them on my grocery list. There are so many great vegetarian style meals and meat substitutes that are low cost. It opened up an entirely new way for me to cook and prepare meals!

If you have digestive issues you almost certainly have food allergies, which is to say some plants bother you. Try doing a carnivore diet and then slowly, one-at-a-time reintroduce plants. Meat is the least likely food to cause an allergic reaction. See www.meatheals.com

Very well stated, thank you!