Bill Wilson started the chapter for agnostics in the Big Book with "We agnostics..", which seems to indicate he considered himself one. He was quite a salesman, & the chapter for agnostics is basically a snow job. There are other indications from his life he was basically an agnostic, although he could spout religious rhetoric when it suited his purpose. The agnostic connection seems especially clear in his experiments with LSD.

On the other hand, he was heavily influenced by the Oxford Group, an evangelical type religious group that had 6 steps. Bill W. expanded them to 12 steps.

Many people attracted to A.A were agnostics & atheists who were heavily offended by the religiosity. Bill W. and the origional founders attempted to soften the religiosity by changing god to "higher power", which you could interpret any way you wished. Higher power could be the collective consciousness of the group or whatever

But god is prominently mentioned in the 12 steps. Often at meetings they recite the lord's prayer, although some groups are more secular in their orientation. In certain metropolitan areas, they have agnostic groups that leave the god stuff out.

At many meetings, they recite the serenity prayer, "god, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change those I can, & the wisdom toknow the difference"--How'd god get into it. Actually that prayer was written by Reinhold Niebuhr

Alcoholics & drug addicts & people who have other addictions have plenty of "stinking thinking"..People who study addiction say this distorted functioning is based on genetic & hormonal imbalances, as well as environmental & learning issues such as family background. These issues lead to untreated mental illness, such as depression, which the addict tries to self medicate with their favorite drug.

Religion is a personal choice, but to my mind, pouring religiosity on this combustable mix is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

The 12 step programs are credited with saving millions of people from death & insanity, but I think they could do it more effectively by emphasizing "identification at depth" & open honest communication & sidelining the god stuff. Often the god stuff is a barrier to real communication.

Judges have ordered people to attend 12 step programs, & legal issues have arisen regarding the separation of church & state. People who study addiction say 12 step programs may work for some people. They are usually readily available & cheap (they pass the basket), but they are not always the best main treatment option, although they may be ancillary.

As for being detrimental, there is often a good deal of "stinking thinking" in the programs which sometimes goes viral. The 12 step programs are not bastions of mental health. People sometimes go on power trips with sponsorship, "pigeon hunting" & such

Disbelieving, I still got sober through AA. The religiosity was a turn off, but wanting the sobriety I saw in others attending was not. For me, the program works by getting drunks to share their experience and to support the newcomer.

@Zster People like you shouldn't have to stifle your disgust with the religiosity of the program to get sober. As you know, there are many others like you in the program. Many get so disgusted with the hypocricy, because as you know recovering addicts are hypersensitive, they go out & drink and/or drug & die

I think Bill W. was a master salesman & a bit of a con artist. I believe he was basically agnostic, but could pretend to be religious when it suited him. He was a bit of an Elmer Gantry

Many people sober up in the program but then become severely addicted to religiosity. Many of the "born again christian" types have horrendous pasts. You would cringe to hear what they've done, but then they become "holier than thou". This seems especially true of drug addicts.

I'm glad for you that you're addicted to love & your art work, but in case you need it, there are Workaholic Anonymous groups

Yes high on drugs, now high on Jesus

Lol. I hope workaholic is not another agnostic scam.

You can't master life if you don't love your work. More of my problem was I got rich and famous and realized I was working for the stuff and too many commercial jobs. Rather not enough than the love and beauty of my artworks. I changed from Luke Skywalker to Dark Vader. For love, we never can get enough.
Now back to Luke and balanced better than ever.

@Castlepaloma I'm glad you're back to Luke, but remember Darth is your father

I can speak for myself. Was told not to come if my higher power wasn’t JC. Also, google toronto atheist aa. Nonbelievers were pushed out, not merely turned off. There is a ton written about aa and nonbelievers.

@Zster that’s not good. Hope you found an alternative support.

@Zster I have heard of groups where those who didn't accept the religiosity party line were shunned or even pushed out. It's good to see so many agnostic & atheist groups forming

True, people leave 12 step groups for various reasons, but one frequently cited is disgust with the religiosity of their group