I read an article that said the depression rate for non-believers is higher than for believers. Do you think this is correct and why?
If the reported rate of depression were higher, that might be due to believers seeking counseling in their church or so on. It doesn't follow that the actual rate of depression is higher among atheists/agnostics, and even if it were, correlation is certainly not causation.
Believers do seem to be more happier. They are happy being stupid and poor and following mandates. Rationality and science deal with the harsh realities.
Well said. Good point.
But is that happiness? I'm not sure. Are they really just better at "putting on a face" and appearing happy? Some religious I know have suppressed their unhappiness, and don't imbibe in much introspection. Then again, there's that mandate against suicide stopping them, so maybe it's a wash.
If this is true, then I would point to the obvious lack of social interaction. I know that, for myself, i have to work at getting out and making the effort. Many have lost social contact with friends and family. If your entire social structure revolved around religion, now you are the social pariah.
However, there are avenues. it just takes drive and commitment. Church was so very convenient, now youve got to work at it.
Bingo!!! Your comment shines light on the loss of social support we non-believers get when we leave the church. No matter what electronic supports we provide others it just can't replace human to human contact.
In addition, the concept of Heaven is like Disneyland and it's a powerful mental health support.
@ElusiveMoby I went with my kid to an event at the local cat-lick school sponsored by Knights of Columbus. It was a free throw contest. One gent needed to go pee or something and asked me to help. I dutifully took the clip board on a line w/o my kid and scored kids. later he comes back, as he watched me we chatted. I said 'I hate sports , I never could see myself reffing an even, especially being athiest, well agnostic, but people don't understand that" He mulled that for about 3 seconds and grabbed the clip board and pen I was dismissed.
The women at the parish help group were taken back, but loved my gifts of food and soup. It seems old frail people and hungry people with little kids did not mind my religious preferences, when I was feeding them.
Funny how hunger and thirst makes us one.
Association is not cause.
Believers have better social support systems. As hyper-social creatures, that influences mood. Worse: some believers eject people who don't tow the line from their families. Which says way more about such believers than it does about unbelievers.
This is a little like saying that gay people are more likely to commit suicide, so being gay leads to suicide -- when in fact making an issue out of being gay is the actual problem.
Well, from personal experience, every person whom I have known who suffers, or has suffered, from anxiety and/or depression has been a believer. One of the questions I had of the god I once believed in was why it didn't help my devoted mother who suffered from anxiety and depression--and who now has dementia even though she thought her god would never let that happen to her.
I have to wonder if believers are just more likely to deny it as they see it as a personal flaw, and are less likely to seek out professional help because they think their god will make them better if they pray hard enough.
Weel put. Nice statement.
I think non-believers are people who want to face the facts, and the facts are pretty grim.
We all cease to exist. Some of us sooner than others. At the end of our lives, there is no justice or reward system. It sounds grim, especially at first, but those of us who realize this grasp life just a little bit more. At least we should.
@ElusiveMoby
That’s the effect it had on me. When you realize this is all there is, what we have left becomes all the more precious.
@skado I was entirely depressed the first year of my self-inflicted religious exile. And then after the settling, the gradual release of eternal bliss, I felt such relief. Such relief!!!
@ElusiveMoby
I was never very invested in religious life, but I found lots of other things to be depressed about. Lol!
Yes, since religion is likely a natural anti-depressant some of our ancestors evolved once the horrors of sentience set in.
Of course, the rest of us are able to cope with awareness, even though we can find other things to be depressed about.
Remember when Oprah said people who do not believe in gods have no sense of wonder? I take that as admission religious believers cling to their faith because without it, their lives are literally bleak and suffocating.
This assumes that depression is something other than a physical condition. It is very much physical as well as hereditary.
All I know is it's plausible and there's not one specific reason why. But for me, I think knowing there isn't a god or afterlife, and knowing how cruel nature can be, it can be a little bleak at times. But I also know how precious human life is so it balances out.
Agnostics are depressed cause they can't make up their mind. They should become full blown atheists. (jk)
Religious people tend to have higher serotonin levels as their belief system gives them the feeling of special status in the world. Serotonin is a feel good neurotransmitter.
Mental health diagnosis is always based on the perspective and self insight of the sufferer. I willing to bet theres such a huge gult between how religious folk report their mental state, vs non religious, that its literally impossible to compare the two
As an atheist since age 13, I am happily free of the guilt, shame, fear, remorse, inhibition, anxiety and depression caused by religion.
"Negative religious beliefs — for example, that God is punishing or abandoning you — have been linked with harmful outcomes, including higher rates of depression and lower quality of life," said Kenneth Pargament, a professor of psychology and an expert on religion and health at Bowling Green State University in Ohio.
"If you tend to see God as punitive, threatening or unreliable, then that's not very helpful to your health," he said.
Hiking, being a mother and volunteering give tremendous meaning to my life.
Since 2006 as a volunteer college mentor, I have helped low income, first generation students with college and scholarship applications. One of my best success stories is Brenda, who won $269,445 in scholarships in 2016.
I can see that agnostics may not see what some call "a reason to live". However, I don't think we need a reason. Just try to be happy while waiting to die.
A Jewish psychiatrist survived the Nazi death camps. Afterward, he wrote a book that basically says "The only reason to live is that you mean something to someone else".
I'll see smiles from lovely ladies and support from lovely guys as a reason to live.
If clinical depression was as simple as "just be happy" nobody would have this illness! Not to mention, just because someone has survived other struggles or oppression, does not mean depression is not valid in an easier life. People do not choose to be depressed just as nobody chose to be taken against their will to a concentration camp. We do not get to choose our genetics and inherited health and/or mental health problems.
@creative51 I have read the book but I don't claim to be an authority on it like you.
The Roman Catholicism I grew up in is the only religion I know. What I say here applies only to it.
It repeatedly told me life is a vale of tears, and it was that until I quit. My life became that of an apostate—a runaway slave, mine. I was free to do with it as I thought best. I was happy. Sixty three years later, the elderly Catholic men I know are not happy. They are looking for happiness and I am happy.
Had I not quit, had I not done what I thought best, what remained of my life would have been much like my father’s life: a vale of tears.
I have thought about that idea for years. Deeply religious people are like the mad shits who flew planes into the Towers, They were praising Allah the whole way in then splat. They were moving fast enough that they were dead before their pain central could make their mouths say ouch.
Deeply religious, or run of the mill believers simple rely on god to cope with life.
Youtube, pray to the milk jug.
If you believe that god forgives every sin, and you get rewarded in heaven, just ask for it. Well you can be a turd, piss on people make lots of money no matter who gets hurt, so long as you praise jesus and beg forgiveness as you know you are weak.
Jimmy Swaggart got down on his knees to beg for forgiveness after getting caught with prostitutes. His act was amazing, he was swaying ,tears real ones, not onion induced, praise'n jesus and beggin fer fergiveness. All humble like. He did move on, to found a smaller but profitable church.
So to circle back, maybe they do not suicide as much, if that is true it is because their belief allows them to view life through a different lens. Some blindly go on because they always believe heaven or a harem of virgins awaits. Please note, Women do not get their virginity back, and a harem full of hunky guys. But when they die they simply never know, then they are dead. Christians think they reach nirvana / heaven and again, just go on.
Atheists, have no after life future and when life gets to be too much, they just check out. They fear no punishment. If their is no afterlife then there is no reason to exist, again check out.
For me I wanna live to see how bad it gets, kinda like reading a terrible novel with just enough plot that you finish the book.
All I can say is, It was fun While It Lasted!
ciao
I think people can make themselves become so busy with religion that the distract their minds from the things that depress them.
Nonbeliever can distract themselves too.
Depression means there's a problem you have that cannot be solved to your satisfaction. Often there is no solving the problem, you have to live with it and know that it will never be solved. Distracting yourself from it does nothing apart for making you forget breifly. It's alleviating the symptom.
I personally don't think depression is a chemical imbalance. I think it's a complicated set of thinking, a perception, that may have no fix by pill. Adjusting brain chemistry may create an artificial mood but will not fix the reality perceived. This is why therapy is successful - you are literally talking yourself out of one perception into another.
makes sense, as the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss"
look if you can deny logic and science and believe all that BS printed in those holy books and spouted by preachers then yes I imagine it is easier to ignore many of the things that depress people,
also if you believe everything is "God's Will" then you certainly have less to be depressed about, after all its all part of the plan.....
Correlation does not equal causation. Diagnosis rates for depression are often cited as being lower in theists...but you have to consider that it is not socially acceptable to be depressed in religious communities. Everyone tells you to trust god and that all is as it should be. In this way, religiosity can actually create a barrier to mental health treatment. So, if that's true, then the study would show the same result, but for very different reasons than one would initially suspect in a headline.
Correlation doesn't equal causation except when it does.
@DaveS002 oops! I realize i fat fingered my initial response. I edited.
Well, when I get depressed it's because of life, not beliefs... I think depression hits regardless of beliefs. I don't believe that rate at all.
Certainly it is correct. I have less friends because of my non-belief. This means I am likely to not be as involved in activities that many others share. There is also the fact that if you are an active church goer more people appear to readily agree with you. I'm talking about your group only.
Am I depressed? Hell yeah! It comes with the territory and does not get better. You simply learn to live with it. If anyone is thinking therapy I strongly advise you seek out a non-believing therapist. Otherwise it is just a big waste of time. BTW, I am my own therapist.
The best therapy is a good dog.
It depends. Where's the article? Where the results statistically significant? Or limited to the sample population? Was the sample population large enough to make any far ranging conclusions?
conservapedia.com I think we can't depend on the evidence to say that more agnostics/atheists suffer depression. I am just saying that people are suggesting the idea. I do know that believers suffer from depression. I guess it is possible that more non-believers suffer depression. In my case, I am not going to believe what is false just so I can be happier. I am after the truth.
Over the years, I have had two lovers who were raised Catholic.
"Once a Catholic, always guilty," is apt.
Both men were sexually repressed and felt guilty about feeling pleasure. They believed oral sex was "dirty."
They are more in tune with reality and do not live in fantasy land. Things are tough out here, we get tired and depressed as the system is not working for anyone unless you are rich.
Sounds about right. There is a sort of bliss that comes with ignorance for many people. It's hard for socialist intellectuals like me to have the same ignorant bliss of the average American peasant. Maybe their religion is the difference for them.
I call BS! Being threatened with Hell 24/7/365 is not a recipe for happiness!
@Grecio "conservapedia"????? The name tells me all I need to know!