Yes!

I don’t really buy the indoctrination theory. At least not as a fault of religion, as if religion is an independent entity that has power to control people for generations without their ability to resist.

The point of my post is that whatever power religion has is power that we have given it voluntarily, because of our nature. Take religion away and people would find another method of indoctrination.

It’s natural to want to teach the youth whatever you believe is true and useful. Calling it indoctrination makes it sound like an evil conspiracy, when it’s really just human nature. Legal conspiracies do happen in limited settings, but one that spans the whole globe for millennia? Prolly not.

@skado And when it's cooked into the recipe? Like Catholicism? Indoctrination was very intentionally included. And I'm fairly certain when all that was decided it was done intentionally in such a way to keep the congregants in line, and keep them paying. Going all the way back to the early days. It's a perpetuating system. Kids don't give power to religion voluntarily.

@skado Indoctrination isn't just simply passing on knowledge and traditions. Note the first synonym: [lexico.com] .

@bingst
The root of the word just means to teach. Who gets to decide what is brainwashing and what is just teaching? Who can claim to be an impartial judge?

Why should there be shame?

@skado having read it there's more than a few reasons, but I'm in positive mode today so good effort! Hope it gets you what you desire from it!

It's beyond nonsense, it's plain old horseshit.

@Sgt_Spanky horeshit has more uses than plain 'ol nonsense, so I typically reverse your order.

@Sgt_Spanky

Agreed. It's drivel, bunk, bullshit, crap, rubbish and gibberish.

Hmmmm. Why is it nonsense? I think it is stating something simple in an overly complicated way, by assuming that "religion" is some independent entity whose connection to human affairs is not obvious.

Religion is a part of our cultural and social make-up. I am not one of those who say that religion is an integral part of "human nature," whatever that means. But religions evolved along with our society and culture. The idea of "morality" also evolved, and religions often reflected that morality back to us, but both morality and religion are man-made.

It's almost (not quite, but almost) like asking when I brushed teeth this morning, was it me who cleaned my teeth or was it the toothbrush. The answer, of course, is that I cleaned it using my toothbrush. It would be a weird thing to say that as a result that somehow toothbrush and I are reflections of each other in the matter of cleaning my teeth.

Religion can be blamed for the bad, but religion is something that we made up, and so ultimately we are to blame. But that doesn't mean that we should not let those who push religion off scott free. They are responsible for pushing a harmful thing.

Why this idea should be expressed in some metaphysical terms, I don't know.

@AtheistReader

Religion is the tool that's used to control the masses. Religion is the opiate of the masses and has little to do with a god. This packaged system of beliefs has been well marketed and has controlled people for centuries because the very nature of it feeds on control.

"Hell" was invented by the Catholic church to control people with fear, a retired priest said.

[churchandstate.org.uk]

American Bishop explains how religion was "made up" and used to control people.

[collective-evolution.com]

The man and story behind Jesus Christ was a Roman hoax designed to control the people, a scholar has sensationally claimed. Christianity is a baseless religion that was designed by the Roman empire to justify slavery and pacify the citizens, according to controversial Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill.

[express.co.uk]

@LiterateHiker I don't think we disagree at all. Not sure if we disagree with @skado in a significant way.

First entry wins thread!

@skado Pffft! Well, then, if it's already over, I'm not even gonna make the effort.