Jesus is a main character in the culturally supported (barf) fairy tale.

@BirdMan1 Horror show, you mean.
After all, he comes with a sword, on a horse, flanked by his henchmen, to smite all nonbelieving 'sinners' and cast them into the fiery pit---where they shall remain FOREVER, amen.
Sounds pretty scary to ME!

@Storm1752 Yeah... I didn't see "Passion of the Christ" but I heard it is two hours of pure torture and horror. What is really disturbing is that so many Christians thought it was a "wonderful" movie Which to me means they have really warped views..

@snytiger6 The Last Temptation of Christ is a much more interesting and entertaining fantasy, but no less ridiculous.

@Storm1752 I don't think I'd find a two hour dramatization of torture to be entertaining. Never mind that I am legally blind and cant' really read subtitles, which would make it all that much worse.

@snytiger6 No I'm talking about a different movie, the one directed by Scocese, The Last Temptation of Christ, NOT The Passion of the Christ, directed by radical buffoon Mel Gibson.
Both are fantasy of the highest order, of course; it's just that one is "cool" and the other is sadistic.
I never saw the sadistic one, and never will.

@Storm1752 Oh yea. I hadn't seen that one either. Somehow I have not really been interested in movies about Jesus. I have considered seeing The Last Temptation of Christ though, only because it pissed off so many religious people. I'll see if it is on Amazon Prime.

The bible may call for that, just like the Superman comics can be said to call for "Leaping tall buildings at a single bound!"

@BirdMan1 What I was trying to point out (maybe without the clarity I should have) is that it's not just "religious bullies" that are the problem; it's the very nature of the three main Middle Eastern religions to demand subservience. Islam divides the world into "The House of Submission" and "The House of War". God himself is a bully on a cosmic scale. Jesus insists that following and submitting to him is more important than family.

Given this, what can we expect out of the true believers? We basically ask them to compromise their beliefs, however irrational they are, in order to live with the rest of the world. And remember, they don't see them as irrational.

The earliest traditions of the Jew Jesus was that he came to fufill the law not to abolish it. The later Pauline theology said the law did not matter at all.

@DavidLaDeau That's because Saul was a Gentile who wanted to spread Christianity to fellow Gentiles. Yeshua (Jesus) was an apocalyptic Jewish cult preacher with a message exclusively for other Jews. (At least, that's how he was portrayed in the original source books... which were compiled decades later, by people with their own agendas and points of view.)

@Paul4747 Paul, a.k.a. Saul of Tarsus, was not a gentile… He was a Jew and a Roman citizen.

@p-nullifidian Thank you for the correction, his Roman citizenship caused me to make what proved to be a lifelong mistake.
Nonetheless, I'm sure I'm correct in saying that his position as a Roman citizen is what concerned him to bring the message to a bigger audience than the Jews.

That's why they don't really like democratic republics, because people are free to ignore them. Most of the evangelicals and fundamentalists especially much prefer fascism so long as they are the ones doing the badgering and that is why they love Trump, he is promising them that his government will impose their dogma on the people they've failed to convert. Of course they find that prospect intoxicating, it's what they really dream of: being in charge here on earth.

@EskieMom A great insight. It's ironic, therefore, that, like most fascist states in modern history, Trump's is actually a cult of personality, having little or nothing to do with religion. He only pays lip service to the Christians and lives his life by standards that they would denounce if he were a Democrat. It's only because he promises to support their agenda that they, in return, give him their votes. It's a deal with the devil; they don't give a shit how many women he's grabbed or how many lies he's told (over 16,000 now!) as long as he bans abortion for them.

I seem to remember Jesus denounced hypocrites in the Bible; I wonder if that verse gets much reading these days in the fundy churches?

@Paul4747 Actually from what I see on Facebook they don't read their good book at all. They just believe what their preachers tell them is in it. Prosperity gospel - that is the opposite of what Jesus taught. Abortion - the old testament is fine with it so long as it's the husband that wants it done if he suspects he is not the father. The evangelicals and fundamentalists just want power and one thing their endorsement of Trumpy has made clear is that the moral song-and-dance was a fraud all along. No one ever need take them seriously on that score again. They are power hungry bullies and that is all they are. I just hope the growing number of people who don't belong to their cults vote. Because if there is one thing Iran should have shown everyone it is that once the religious bullies take power it is extremely difficult to take it away from them.

These evangelicals have private jets and where do they get money to buy private jets? Off of their brainwashed supporters! How can America be so stupid?

The tax code specifically states that religions are only tax exempt so long as they stay out of politics. The problem is the churches figured out that politicians don't have the guts to enforce that clause.

@snytiger6 sadly, true....

Why do you have to target an idividual? Give me ONE good factual reason you chastise Trump. And back it with provable facts, if you can't then you are no more than the religous fanatics that chastise agnostics and atheists for not being "Sheeple" and following blindly along with the masses

@thethinker trump has played the evangelicals like a cat plays with a ball of string. He didn't have to do that - he did it because he's ruthless and greedy. Trump is a wad of shit shaped like a man.

@BitFlipper I agree with you about him playing the evangelicals. But thats the only fault I have found with him. The evangelicals are a large voting group. All is fair in love and war, which is a stupid cliche but he just gathered supporters in any way he could. If he had come out as an agnostic or atheist where do you think his voter base would have gone. He is smart, and he is helping our country. The gathering of religious voters bothers me as well but you have to see where he is coming from. Thank you for your response

@thethinker Calm down, Thinker. You are not thinking. It looked to me like I was chastising the Evangelicals and televangelists. They are the ones to which I attached ignorant and strange reasons.

@thethinker I strongly disagree he is "helping" our country. If he'd tackle systemic problems like income inequality, our runaway deficits, our grossly unfair tax laws, etc., I MIGHT overlook his glaring flaws.
But he, like other Republicans, refuse to face reality in every sphere: religious, economic, military, and environmental, to name a few.
If YOU want to live in a fascist plutocracy, keep thinking he's not an elitist Ayn Rand- style Objectivist.
If YOU think dog-eat-dog libertarianism, laissez-faire capitalism, with no rules and regulations holding back outright greed and avarice, is a good idea, he and men and women like him are your cup of tea.
Otherwise get real and wake up.

@thethinker "Helping our country." down the drain! Encouraging bigotry, misogyny, screwing over our allies, and so forth, is not helping anything of value.

@Storm1752, @DenoPenno I never got upset. I don't need to calm down, I am doing just fine. I don't see where my post implied I was upset in any manner.

@Storm1752, @DenoPenno, @BirdMan1 You are sadly misinformed. Maybe you should fact check before you go attacking someones statements. You must not be involved with the day to day economy. It shows. You seems like one of the "Sheeple" that follow anyone as long as its with the herd. I thought this was a forum of free thinkers. Obviously there are plenty of sheeple out there. What did you accomplish by posting your lack of information?

@thethinker I don't see where my posts imply that I am following anyone nor do they show a lack of day to day information. Some people just go along for the ride. I'm not one of them.

@thethinker Trump really hasnt' accomplished all that much.
The economy had already been restored. Obama inherited an economy on the verge of collapse and brought us back from the brink. Trump inherited a strong economy. All he had to do was not fuck i8t up, but he has managed to slow economic growth with his tariff policies (which has also greatly ncreased bankrputicies on family farms). Trump has also encouraged,m racism, bigotry, misogyny and homphobia with his comments. The U.S. under Trump has lost most of its influence with world leaders and optu international standign in terms of human rights is down near third world countries. Trump has removed regulations to keep our water and air clean, ignored climate changes, even though the 3% of studies which deny climate change have been shown to be flowed. He promised to provide a better health care plan than Obama, but what he presented was so bad, that even though republicans held majorities in both houses at the time, it was defeated by large margins. Trump has but help for veterans in both housing and health care, and is constantly devaluing the their service. Trump has been violating the Emoluments Clause (of the constitution), using his office and position to enrich himself and family members, instead of serving the public interest. Trump has bused his power as stated in the Mueller Report and in article one of his impeachment. His updates ot NAFTA were not significant other than where it updated for new technologies, but it is doubtful Trump was actually responsible for that. He may have reduced illegal immigration, but now aobut a quarter of fruits and vegetable rot because there is nobody to harvest them, and so we pay more for them at the store, because of the reduced supply to the markets. As for religion. Trump is a faux Christian. He does the bidding of far right religious groups to maintain popularity, and not because he has any kind of actual beliefs. I could keep going on, but this is pretty long already and I myself don't appreciate overly long posts or messages.

@snytiger6 Here is where am coming from, I am a oilfield worker, not a prolitariate but an engineer. I see people working, buying, spending, and lots of job opputinities. I may be blinded to the future, but I have stage 4 cancer and I would not have gone to a VA hospital three years ago with my diagnosis. I have seen a 180 %V turnarounf since Trump made it so VA workers could be fired. Up until thenthe would tell you "Fuck You" and there was nothing that could bedone about it. Now I prefer the VA over civilian hospitals

@thethinker I hope things work out for you. I'm a Vet but do not got to VA so far. I'm not too happy with the way regular hospitals operate these days.

@thethinker I am not one of those persons who think everything Trump does is bad, but it does seem that most of what he does is bad for most of the people.

I do agree that bad workers, whether at the VA or any government office shoudl be able to be fired for just cause, just like any other job.

My dad went tot the VA for his diabetes (he eventually passed), and one of my brothers also goes to the VA for heart problems and diabetes. I have had acquaintances who worked for the VA, and they were grateful for their jobs and did them well.

I think the whole inability to fire thing came about because they didn't want the
VA to be on the copping block when it came to budgets cuts.

Personally I am a fan of a temporary program from the Clinton administration called "The national Assessment Project" which went and looked at how government did things, talking to workers and the peopel they were supposed to serve and they cut out a lot of "red tape" and inefficiency, modernized by modernizing how things were done and cutting out unneeded tasks. It left them with a surplus of workers and nothing enough work for them , but rather than fire them, they reduced workers by natural attrition. I was surprised at how few persons knew about this, as it was mostly responsible for the Clinton budget surpluses in the last two years as they saved much more money than they anticipated. What was really surprising is that Al Gore was the one who was in charge of it. Had he run just on that he would have won the 2000 election. Anyway, I think they shoudl make a permanent department of National Assessment, which constantly audits government agencies and programs to cut out inefficiencies and save tax payer money. It would be a government program that would more than pay for itself.

I agree with you 100% I hate the ignorant motherfuckers, they cherry pick through the bible and only quote what they like

I would only be hostile to the same degree that they aggressively try to push their beliefs onto me.

Sometimes I just totally ignore them, and pretend they are not even there.

@snytiger6 I honestly don't believe I can afford the luxury of ignoring them anymore. I believe they must be met with solid resistance at every turn.
They've become far too emboldened by the "live and let live" attitude many of us have taken over the years.
They've seen that as permission to encroach upon every aspect of everyone's lives. They've infiltrated the government. They've infiltrated the school systems. They've trampled over everyone's rights.
I can't allow myself to "live and let live" anymore.

Not bullies, overt Fanatic’s they have been giving the blessing to crush your rights by the obstructionist republican fascist who are suppressing women, Children, the infirm, and those legally allowed to live and work here!!!

Really, I thought that most didn’t have time for them? Perhaps our idea of civilised is different

“People who think they’ve got things all figured out, are almost always wrong.” Tom Gilovich

That's part of the reason I didn't retire in the South. There was enough of that nonsense in Ohio. Sometimes it got kind of funny though: there was a parade and of course it was dominated by churches who entered floats. One of them had a guy hanging on a cross imitating Jesus. The crowds watching it didn't know how to respond so the Jesus wanna-be was greeted with shocked silence. No one took the flyers the other people on the float were throwing to people. A little too weird even for hicks in the hinterlands.

I don't think any politician has the courage to enforce those laws. The laws tdo make sense though. If religion wants a voi9ce in politics then they shoudl have to help pay for the government.

Here's my favorite solution to JW's or Mormon missionaries.

We get them every summer along with Mormons. I have to say they have at least been polite and left without an argument when I tell them I'm not interested.