Was Jesus a man who became mythicized or a myth that became historicized or something else?
My impression is the former. Easy to put prophetically convenient words in a mouth and deeds into legend centuries hence. Today's press routinely does it on a daily basis.
They've got your vision so foggy drowning you in their fictional clouds that you started philosophizing their nonsense!
He never existed!!!
He was never mentioned in any historical or biblical documentation for over four hundred years until supposedly after his death!!!
I think he was mentioned: Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonios?
There is one reference in contemporary Roman records of a troublesome rabbi named Chrestus or Christus, depending on who translates it, that was routinely crucified by Pontius Pilate. This is, I suspect the basis of the Jesus myth that was concocted to draw in the non-Jewish population and help a fledgling religion take off.
I am copying the following from another comment so not to have to type all of this information again:
For the sake of this comment let us use your chosen side and call it total fiction. Now, let us consider the literary genious that is incorporated into
You say " ...CREATE something as complex as a God-sent Messiah from simple fire-side stories.."
So goat herders be sitting around camp fire telling stories and the ideal of making a story that the words of the story turn into a person and come to life.
A herder says, "But no one will believe in the power of words. "
"So then we will make a New Testiment full of eye witness accounts that it really happened and people will believe because we write eye witness testimony." Says Mr. Goat watcher.
John 1:14 ... word become flesh ... dwelt among us.
Matthew 5:17 ...[Jesus said] ...
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
How many prophecies are there in the Old Testament that were fulfilled by Jesus? Scholars differ in their answers, generally ranging from about 200 to 400.
In a comparison to modern movie, Jesus character was preprogrammed like a robot/slave to words.
Ok!
The biblical text follows out of Egypt and most do not understand nor know the connections that the biblical text actually saying in new testiment that the Egyptian stories come true.
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25
The "Lord" of Israel was Egyptian.
As to Osiris of Egypt:
But he did not just represent death in the physical world, also rebirth or what you may call being born again.
a) John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
As to Osiris of Egypt:
He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.
John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”
This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).
John 1:1 In the beginning was the logos, the logos was with God and was God.
Logos, thought/word capabilities. What is anything with out cognition or thinking ability?
What is the highest of concepts to understand? Knowledge of good and evil.
Can cognition create? As written, Jesus character say: ... that born of pneuma is Pnuema. I think "Ruach"would be used instead of Pnuema if originally written in Hebrew. Ruach and Pnuema translated into English is Spirit which as a connotation of ghost. This I think is an error to use spirit with or as a connotation for ghost.
Jesus character referred to himself as "son of man". The man (people) having the Egyptian logos thoughts spoke Jesus character into existence. This follows with other themes of biblical ideals the "God" created by simply speaking it into existence. Speaking words is force with information. Ruach is a force. Air molecules have a force with intellageable pattern when words are spoken.
Isaiah says [prophesies for "the lord" ] blessed be Egypt my people.
The "lord" is Egyptian.
Then I found Osiris stuff that I am not much familiar with but giving alternating comparisons between what I found about Egyptian Osiris compared next to what is written as to what Jesus said according to John.
So, it appears that what was written about Osiris is something that could be viewed as comming about.
Osiris was widely worshipped until the decline of ancient Egyptian religion during the rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire.[15][16] wikipedia
Horus gradually took on the nature as both the son of Osiris and Osiris himself. He was referred to as Golden Horus Osiris.[27][28][29][30][31] In the temple of Denderah he is given the full royal titulary of both that of Horus and Osiris. He was sometimes believed to be both the father of himself as well as his own son, and some accounts have Horus Osiris being brought back to life by Isis. Wikipedia
Can we say Christianity is the son of Egypt but it is still itself as Egypt as was the father but they are the same? So, it is Golden Horus Osiris leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipper governmental terrorist.
Lucifer (UK: /ˈluːsɪfər/ LOO-si-fər; US: /-sə-/; 'light-bringer' is a Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances, and is often used for mythological and religious figures associated with the planet. Due to the unique movements and discontinuous appearances of Venus in the sky, mythology surrounding these figures often involved a fall from the heavens to earth or the underworld. Interpretations of a similar term in the Hebrew Bible, translated in the King James Version as "Lucifer", led to a Christian tradition of applying the name Lucifer, and its associated stories of a fall from heaven, to Satan. Most modern scholarship regards these interpretations as questionable, and translates the term in the relevant Bible passage (Isaiah 14:12) as "morning star" or "shining one" rather than as a proper name, "Lucifer".[1] wikipedia
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
"beast" in the book of Revelations is metaphor for laws of government. Mark as in give a mark for identification: mark of the beast means identification for taxation and government control .
Written almost 2000 years ago in metaphor and riddles not always understood.
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelations 13:16-17
The uneducated with no interest in mystical traditions and the esoteric may regard Ancient Egypt as little more than a place of pagan worship, strange hieroglyphics, and monuments erected by thousands of Hebrew slaves. But those more learned, especially those having undertaken the initiative rituals of Freemasonry, will see a link between the Egyptian metaphysical tradition and modern mystery schools, of which Freemasonry is one. www dot gaia dot com /article/ancient-egypt-and-freemasonry
Lord of host Lucifer the devil most commonly known as Jesus the Christ! leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipper governmental terrorist in the establishment of the mark of the beast 666 identification for taxation and government control. No justice for the innocent, more children can be trained to speak and act abused to wrongfully prosecute innocent people especially those that oppose there Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worship "my teacher made me touch her p.p ". Take the original indigenous inhabitants of their land call it America call them such as Mexicans, Indians and native Americans
#1 The expression "the Son of man" occurs 81 times in the Greek text of the four Canonical gospels, and is used only in the sayings of Jesus.[3] wikipedia
In writing Jesus character has refered to himself as "son of man".
A) he was a "son" or to say an offspring but in biblical context he was a product of man to say man made.
B) he was a man meaning a "real god thingie is without gender" so Jesus character "...it shows Jesus' understanding of himself as the "man" that God has singled out as a friend and representative.[11]" wikipedia
To paraphrase a scenario was asked of Jesus character in Mark 12: 7 brothers had married the same woman because each brother would die then next brother would marry and die passing along wife thru the 7 brothers until she died as well, none having any children.
Mark 12:25 ..they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
This does not specifically say without gender but it would imply because no marriages go on.
Jesus character was a man made representation (like an angel) of the real God thingie.
These days I'm fond of the theory that Christ was a creation of the Flavian emperors of Rome in an effort to divide and subjugate the Jews by giving them the messiah they believed was coming only making him one preaching submission rather than the rebellious one the expected was coming to save them.
Yeah, sure, & you're wife was a virgin!
Does it make a difference? I do know the Romans kept meticulous records, especially of executions, and their records have No mention.
I don't know! But I can tell you this: When I was a true believer, miracles happened! For me! I could be in a bind, such as being locked out of my car at a gas station by my own negligence, and I said to that door of my car "In the name of Jesus OPEN!" And I pulled and it did. Another time a professor of mine's car would not start as I was walking to mine. We popped the hood. I looked around. Couldn't see anything wrong. I put my hands on the manifold and said to the car (I understand now this sounds ridiculous and stupid.) "In the name of Jesus START!" and it did. I mean... you know...with him in there hitting the key and tapping the throttle. He was not a Christian. His name was V John Matthew. From India or Pakistan or somewhere where Christianity was not the thing. Another time I had a person get mad at me for street witnessing or street preaching without being loudly preaching. He came at me with a knife and held it to my throat. I said to him "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus." He looked at me like I was a weirdo, and indeed I was, but then backed off and went his way. So? Did Jesus do all this? Or was it the blind confidence I had? But blind confidence can't open locks on car doors , can it? Or maybe it's my belief that it could and should?
I think we have a whole lot more inside us, but we learn to believe it's all outside us. This is the mystery. Because once you have been indoctrinated to believe that faith requires a god, then you automatically start losing faith within yourself.
I'm skeptical of those accounts. You're describing something of a magic genie.
Uh oh,,,,,,
@WilliamCharles He might have bumped the heat riser on the exhaust manifold. Or something.
@WilliamCharles And one day when I had constipation, I said to thee lord, free these demons!.